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I came across an interesting conversation between an Indian (Bharat Verma) and Pakistani (Zaid Hamid)Defence Analsysts on youtube. At one point in the conversation where Verma accuses Pakistan of ‘exporting’ terrorism to India, Hamid asks him about 1971. He asks why the Indian state imposed terrorism across the international borders of the then East Pakistan? To split Pakistan into two? Was that not exporting terrorism? Mr verma very graciously admits India being the saviour of 90,000 Bengali women being mistreated/raped by the Pakistani Army. This, in Verma’s words, was enough to jusitfy the export of ‘Mukti Bahni’ terrorists into East Pakistan. Then, Hamid argues, why does India protest when Pakistan exports ‘mujahideen’ in response to the Kashmiri women’s rape? the Christians being put to fire? the Samjhota express being burnt? the Gujrati Muslims being killed? Isn’t it exactly what the Indians did to us in 1971? And continue to do in FATA and Balochistan? Why doesn’t the Indian media project that? Mumbai was RAW’s failure but RAW has had many successes in Pakistan too. Why are they not publicised? Even if the terrorists were Pakistanis, it does not set the score even for what India has been doing in Pakistani territory, be it East Pakistan, be it Balochistan, be it FATA. Pakistanis being killed in these areas are equally innocent civilians. They are victims of Hindu fascism that accidentally revealed itself in its Mumbai attempt to splash mud on the Muslim terrorists. We need to look at both sides of the picture, not just what the Indian and Zionist media paint. Muslim jihadists would long have been controlled by the Pakistani army had they not had the support of RAW and Mossad from Afghan borders. Today, they carry more modern weapons than even the country’s army. Where’s the money and support coming from? Certainly not from the Pakistani government against whom they’re fighting. Even if we agree that the Marathi speaking, bear-drinking terrorsits of Mumbai were Pakistanis look at the support they’re getting from the Muslims. Pakistani government bans all suspicious organizations, Indian Muslims refuse to burry them in their graveyards. On the other hand, look at the Hindu terrorism that has full support of the BJP government. Why wasn’t Col. Punit (dont know how to spell his name) from Indian military intelligence handed over to Pakistan or at least punished in India for burning the Samjhota Express, killing 71 Pakistanis? Instead, he’s running the upcoming elections, most probably will win too. In Pakistan, the political parties that always lose are the Islamist ones. Come on, India! Stop serving the Israeli and American’s purposes. Pakistan was trying to revive friendly relations, trying to restart the oil pipeline possibility between Iran, Pakistan and India. Think of Pakistan’s internal situation, is it logical for a struggling state to ‘export terrorism’? Only friendship and cooperation is and this is what the big powers dont want. They dont want the people of this region to progress. If we progress, we give a strong front to China. Who will buy imported products if we start making them ourselves? We, the sub-continent, are the biggest market for all these multinationals. They can’t bear the thought of us making our own products. They want us to continue buying their beauty products and their weapons to kill each other. A nuclear war between us won’t harm your Mossad friends, it’ll only harm us; the people who have lived in harmony with each other for centuries. Let’s prove their ulterior motives wrong. Let’s not get into this trap of a regional war. We’re the richest region in the world in terms of natural resources. Let’s race for progress, not for destruction! Related Articles |
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{ 38 comments… read them below or add one }
Well your passage is quite interesting but i would like to ask you if we’r here to settle scores or talk about the past .If the agenda is to stop fighting and to bring about friendship between two countries with a bitter past then we better understand the situation now is worse as indians ask for the people behind the Mumbai attacks and consider them as people n not pakistanis…According to the proof collected by the indian int its quite obvious that the terrorits had links i pakistan …Ur Passage has helped me adapt a different ponit of view regarding the relationship between the ppl of the 2 countries…bt i feel we should nt talk bout the indians or pakistanis bt lets talk bout just the ppl who were involved let them be indians or pakistanis…ur passage was interesting bt i feel somewhere down the lane u still believe in the blame game n the pipeline idea jus seems a way for you to express your views …
Three of the last five articles posted here in this forum are about Mumbai attach, hindu terrorism and similar stuff. I am surprised why our brothers across the border is so obsessed with India, the Hindu religion and associated problems. It is indeed heartening to see that you actually worry about us and our future and discuss related topics at such great lengths.
It would be equally nice to read what the tech-savvy and educated youth of Pakistan (which, I believe, is represented by this forum to a sizable extent) think about Pakistan. What visions do you hold for the nation Pakistan? Where do you want see your country after, say 10-20 years? What role would Pakistan be playing in the global politics, economics, science, human development then? What should be the future course of action for the youth of this country?
Ok, many thanks for some peaceful statements from Pro-pakistan.
First you denied they were Pakistani nationals, so I think the serious question is that: where did this confidence came from? I mean you could have at least said they could be, instead of aggressively defending yourself that they are not. This stirs up reaction from India, especially since there have been hostile war situations between us in the past.
I mean I have Pakistani friends, and we all get along well.
for us to live in peace and harmony, we must forget trying to remember our hostile past. You raped Bengali women, we raped Kashmiri women, and we have to save honour of our community etc etc, and this comes at the Price of Revenge. This is not the way forward if we want to live in peace, look at the relations between US and Canada, UK and other European countries.
Days after Mumbai attacks, we all heard that there were raids on 7 terror camps in Pakistan Army. Well the question to me is that: why were the camps running in the first place? And another question that comes to me is that if some 10 nationals were exported with at least Zarar shah and Lakhvi being 2 bosses, it is very hard to believe (impossible) that there wasn’t 13th person that knew what was going on in the country? This only suggest that there was support for anti-India activities inside the country. Well this is what we think, true or not u decide.
“A person along with few individual enters India through some undefined route less, declared valid route of entry.
This entry was ought to dare a consequential massacre in some city area in the name of terrorism.
Knowingly the theme and calculated results they still leave behind all necessary attachment that may prove their identity and attachment as belonging and bearings.
This or these people, since being in possession of supposed validity as Pakistani, is or are tagged as an agent or agents of a nation and its internal security force on behalf of available left out, who were supposedly believed to be behind the massacre.â€
Judges! Don’t you think that this is an absurd issue?
Now! What does sanity demands?
Sanity demands that knowingly, the upcoming action and chaos of the act such breach as blunder for keeping and leaving indemnifying belonging as hazards, can not be kept as docus or carrying and left out, which thereafter can prove their backups and attachment, on accomplishment of task or if at all engaged?
Precisely; Even a thief and robbers don’t mess with such left out as prints.
What to talk about intelligence agencies?
Indians! Pity on you; you can’t even make a real melodrama.
These 10 “terrorists” were so highly trained that they held 3000+ trained men of the Indian forces for 3 days.
But according to the Indians, they were not trained enough to hide their identity. LOL..
according to the Indians, they were also trained in drinking beer, however they were going to die in the name of Islam.
according to the Indians they were Islamic fundamentalist according to the Indians, but a new breed who drinks, and has no beard, and carries a shaving cream on a terrorist mission.
Since they were not suicide bombers, they must have planned to go back by the same rubber boat they came on,,,and the ATA bag of 10Kg was needed in case they need to make some pukki pukkai tazah roti in the TANDOOR that they must have had specially customised for their boat :)
>>>>
Cmon Indians, its a flop movie, you have made some real blunders in the past where one guy (sunny deol) comes to Pakistan from India to take out his muslim girlfriend, and beats the whole army, and gets her out….lol…..but this Mumbai movie really is a flop, and is pretty rubbish I think.
So stop thinking about fighting etc. you can bribe who you like to say what you like, but the movie is still a flop in Pakistan.
“Three of the last five articles posted here in this forum are about Mumbai attach, hindu terrorism and similar stuff.”
LOL…I think I feel your pain here…….HAYEE
>>>
“why our brothers across the border is so obsessed with India”
LOL….brothers????? HAHAHA,,,
India Pakistan will be peaceful when fundamentalist terrorist hindus can even accept Pakistanis as just humans………and you say BROTHERS ???…..LOL……
But hey, a question though…….ALL the articles I have read here, they havent managed to “obsess” me with India…..which bit of these articles that are showing the real truth about “Incredible india” makes you feel that Pakistanis may be “obsessed” with India AT ALL??
>>>
Also, you can read the many articles about Pakistan on this site, I read them regularly. you can also find good info on Pakistan if you are looking for it, here and on google!!!!
But I am not too sure why an indian would not want to know about their own country and issues that they should be resolving instead of cooking up Mumbai attacks and killing their own people.
When will indians wake up to the fact that their govt does this kind of dramas only as an election stunt.
You guys are sayyin Mumbai attacks were done by India ….. I don’t understand why does the Pak Govt does’nt share this view ….. instead they are assuring India of a transpparent investigation in Pak - http://www.dawn.com/2009/01/20/top1.htm ….. If pro-pak is sayin attacks were planned by India why is the Govt. of Pak not sharing the same view …..
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Columnists/M_J_Akbar_India_Pak_are_worlds_apart/articleshow/399349.cms
Hahahah.. @ sarkar.. sorry did you mean to Army/IsI when you say govt of Pakistan?
I love this forum… only forum with one sided views
yeah, mr bacchan. the only forum that shared ‘ur one-sided views’ with its entire readership. more than 50% of the comments above mine are indians’. u still call it one-side?
@ hassan: is it pakistan that’s being aggressive? is it pakistan thats building bagliar dam? is it pakistan that accuses u for even a fly/goat/cow tht dies in its territory? the groups existed cuz they were doing welfare work. they ran ambulances, clinics and schools in poor communities of pakistan but since india had created this international propaganda, pakistan closed these as a positive gesture. has india given any proof of its allegations on these groups? no. by the way, these grps r ideologically against the pakistani govt itself. why wud the govt/ISI/army support them?equip them? they wud first try to overthrow the pakistani govt. before going to india. so….im sorry but the mumbai film was a flop. we r confident it wasnt pakistan-exported cuz pakistanis are all with officers like Karkare. we wud never hav wanted him to be killed.
@sarkar,
Well its entirely up to you, whose word you want to listen to. And if it is the Pak govt, then perhaps you should have listened to them in the first place!
@Amitabh Bacchan and the rest of the Mumbai drama crew,
I would have checked and read the comments first though ;)
Yes there are a bit too many comments from indian RATS here …you are absolutely correct bacha :)
May be this Pakistani forum should only publish Pakistani views……i am hoping that the Indian RATS here have something better to do though :)
Firstly the Malegaon case is progresing (http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20090080801) its not over after Karkare’s death …. Secondly the Pakistani President has already said the Mumbai attackers were ‘non-state actors’ from Pak …. why has the Pak govt never made the above statements mentioned in ur article ….
@All,
I think the mumbai drama crew is all the same RAT here…..me thinks it is the usual suspect……
Amitabh ka Baccha = Natarajan = Pappi lahori = Kharkar = Chalakya = Malik = the same old indian RAT with a few different names……
as quoted below…i think even replying to himself !!!….LOL…..
“Hahahah.. @ sarkar.. sorry did you mean to Army/IsI”
******
LOL…..LOL…:)
I think its mostly the same person, cos even other indians arent this sad…they must have their own websites to go to !!!
@Raheel - So I guess u wan’t this site to be lik ur country Pak … one sided dream world of urs … we hav millions of sites to visit but if you guys spread lies and neagative propaganda about India … We commenting is fair enough … Thats the whole reason why Internet is called the ‘Free Zone’ …
@Raheel.. Well done again.your small madrasa brain couldnt have done better anyway…
you are good to point out that may be all are same person and are replying to themselves.
but dude did you miss to read the comments or read it but failed to understand as its in english. or somehow if understood you dont want comment on those.
answer Sarkar’s question also…
“Pakistani President has already said the Mumbai attackers were ‘non-state actors’ from Pak …. why has the Pak govt never made the above statements mentioned in ur article ….”
Malik bhai: governments r sold n bought under pressure these days. when ur dear collaborator Israel and US r pressurizing, poor pakistani govt. succumbs to that pressure. even u urself know what a fool ur govt has made out of innocent indian civilians killd in the mumbai drama….so regardless of pakistani govt’s decision dont close ur eyes like a pigeon. be realistic…will closing pakistani camps end hindu terrorism in india?
Amitabh Bacchan/Natarajan/Pappi lahori/sarkar/Chanakya/Malik/Nanu/any other name you want to take up,
“Three of the last five articles posted here in this forum are about Mumbai attach”
and
“We commenting is fair enough”
>>>
So when “its fair enough” then what is the issue ?
@Malik etc
“Well done again.your small madrasa brain couldnt have done better anyway…
you are good to point out that may be all are same person and are replying to themselves”
Well, finally you managed to learn the spellings of madrassa (well near enough) mr nanu.
Your repeated questions have already been answered many times (perhaps you forgot you have probably asked them under a different user name :)
BTW here it is again, our president and press says many things, are you believing all of them? Oh yeh, as India has gone to the US with a big begging bowl to lick what they spat as a “war threats”, now the US is putting pressure on Pakistan, cos India has seen her bluff fail time and time again ;) so they knew if they dont go begging to the US, their drama wont go far :)
*****
“answer Sarkar’s question also”
you mean the question you yourself asked under sarkar’s name ?? :)
*****
“you are good to point out that may be all are same person and are replying to themselves.”
Do I hear a confession from a dirty RAT here???
MAY BE?????
Go on “dude” let us in on your lonely secret ……LOL….LOL…..:) :) :)
******
“we hav millions of sites to visit but if you guys spread lies and neagative propaganda about India”
can you please tell us how many of those “millions” of sites that “we” have that are spreading negative propaganda against India then??
*****
Over all, I think you are the same person, posting with different names, who has nothing better to do then ask questions himself, and then ask others to answer his own questions….sorry to reveal this to you, but who ever it is by posting dwith different names is a sad, lonely, dirty RAT. And you know it. Just like your genocidal, rapist, bhooki nangi country knows it too.
this is reply to ur post that was titled rapist India
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/27/AR2005062700632.html?nav=rss_world
It took you so much time to come out with a link dating back to 2005. Impressive response man! We are now out of words and hence wee have to think all over again.
So here are few old stories from your time period about India!
http://www.dancewithshadows.com/rapes_india.asp
Uptil 2006 Husband used to rape their wives and it was legal as well. Incredible India
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/india-abolishes-husbands-right-to-rape-wife-421829.html
Women raped and then sold for Rs.6 i.e one cent or two cents i think
http://www.ahrchk.net/ua/mainfile.php/2005/1234/
Police and government is also involved in this crime and that is how it is reported here.
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/2554.asp
Now if the above are not enough, here are few new ones
As per Hindustan Times, Rape is the fastest growing Crime in Incredible India
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=NLetter&id=0b51ade6-6292-453d-a9cc-ea828c1dfcc8&&Headline=Shame%3A+Rape+is+India%E2%80%99s+fastest+growing+crime
Another recent Case
http://newsblog.aol.in/2009/01/13/i/
And here is a video by your own channel
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/rape-indias-fastest-growing-crime/64504-3.html
The thing is that one simple search on Google and posting a story of Washington Post for a Pakistani crime is nothing impressive. I never wanted to get into this discussion since the facts are open and hence we should face them. The best we can do is to think about the ways to stop them. So instead of finding out faults with our sources, better go and focus on this rising crime before it hits another innocent person.
@Asima - If Isreal and US Govt can pressurise Pakitani President to say anything … thats says a lot about your country. @Raheel - This is begging -> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/world/asia/19zardari.html?_r=1&fta=y
@ Deer Pakistanis.. please come to rapist India if dont have any food to eat.
we gave it 50 yrs back as well and we will give it to you again.
@Malik Bhai
Pls feed and clothe your own womenflock first. What food would you murderers give anyone when even the foetus in a mother’s womb is a liability???
Check this out Pakistanis -> http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/mumbaiterrorstrike/Story.aspx?ID=NEWEN200900B1045&type=News
@Malik bhai and other indians,
“Deer Pakistanis.. please come to rapist India if dont have any food to eat”
LOL….And what can this Rapist India offer…hmm let me think…hmm..oh yeh….RATS……..INDIAN RATS……As your officials say “We have lots of them” (some of them we have seen around too)……LOL…….TAZA TAZA CHOOHAY
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1044046/Indian-officials-tell-poor-people-start-eating-rats-The-beauty-billions-them.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2553352/Eat-rats-for-snacks-says-Indian-official.html
*******
And when you feel like a drink, then what will the Rapist India offer…oh yeh…the drink of your leaders…..URINE….yes…..LOL…..URINE….haha…
http://rupeenews.com/2008/02/16/chilled-urine-drinking-hot-in-india-telegraph-reports/
*****
Or is it only for Dalits???? Like this link shows (DALITS FORCED TO DRINK URINE):
http://www.indianexpress.com/oldstory.php?storyid=62051
*******
India ek Bhuki Nangee qaum.
Khanay ke lyay TAZA choohay,
Peeney kay leya TAZA peshab,
Ya apna, yah apni gaumutra ka,
******
UGGGGHHHH THOOO
i wish some indian had had the courage to talk abt RAW’s activities in pakistan too (mentioned in the article above). RAW and ISI play equally deadly games.infact if ISI starts supporting the separatist movements in india, just like Raw has done in Pakistan, it wud b very easy to avenge fall of dhaka.Pakistan actually shared the lists of the khalistan movement leaders with india who were then hand-picked n killed by the indian govt. india’s role in pakistan’s separatist movements is exactly the opposite.pakistan is closing its ‘terrorist camps’ but wen will india close its ‘hindu terrorist grps’ within its parliament, army n intelligence?its not meant to start another trail of comments, both sides can argue well but are the indian hands pointing at pakistan clean of terrorism themselves?
Do you think Awan those India groups are aimed at Pakistan though or other Indians?
Chris,
Let me take the liberty to answer that.
Firstly, are you saying that they are not significant even if they were aimed at other indians?
Secondly, if the Indian govt is going to protect them, or turn a blind eye, and let them in politics, these very hindu extremists will be the ones Pakistan and other neighbours have to deal with. See an example of Samjhauta express bombings here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Samjhauta_Express_bombings
and notice the words:
“There have been a number of breaks in the investigation of the bombings, but as of May 2008, nobody has been charged for the crime.”
>>>
And finally, in the above example of Samjhauta express bombing. Terrorists apparently aimed at “other Indians”, but Pakistanis were blamed before the bomb smoke could have dissapeared.
>>>
The Mumbai attacks are also carried out by the same people who Karkere was investigating and revealing as a result, including the above Samjhauta express. This includes members of the Indian army too.
Hemant Karkare’s death was desperately needed to fundamentally alter the investigation into the Malegaon bombing.
http://internationalaffairs.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_last_days_of_hemant_karkare
http://www.chowrangi.com/hemant-karkare-investigations-into-indian-army-terrorist-nexus-caused-mumbai-terror-attack.html
>>>
Overall, these Indian terrorist groups may be killing Indians, but the results from their actions are still blamed and aimed at India’s neighbours.
India should shut these groups down, instead of turning a blind eye and let them carry on killing other Indians as who ever gets the blame, it is still humans who die.
Balvinder’s totally right. Just one more thing, Raw’s activities arent aimed at indians. they r directly affecting us but in india ppl only criticise ISI. nobody points at Raw sabotaging pakistan’s stability whatever way it can. its activities on pak-afghan border need to be questioned while our govt. unlaterally closes our militant grps. peace process wud only work if its 2-way
asima.. do u guys ever condemn ISI? whole world is now thinking about pakistan not because its a failed state and it need to be saved but because pakistan has nuclear bombs which can be used by terroists against anyone. and everyone knows that ur democratically elected govt does not control pak army or ISI… ur president cant even stand to his own words.
There is a saying in Hindus…
Nange se to Bhagwan bhi darta hai… and its very suitable to pakistan in current scenario.. ur reputed scientist father of pak nuclear technology has already been caught selling these technologies to other countries.. no one trust you any more and recent statements by Obama make it very clear…
@ hindu, since when has the US president become the unbiased judge of right or wrong? if he ever was, then iraq shud hav been full of WMDs. ISI is known cuz it was CIA’s franchise in russian war. since then Raw and ISI are equal. infact u shud answer my question, what if ISI also starts supporting ur separatist movements like Raw does with ours? it wont b hard for ISI to support khalistan n the likes n divide india into pieces. we’ll condemn ISI when Raw will stop its aggression. right now, im proud of ISI being our defence & Raw’s nightmare. does anyone trust india now after its false accusations of mumbai on pakistan? whats wrong with selling technology? didnt US ever sell it? didnt india ever buy it?all nuke powers have bought it frm somewhere…n india’s nukes r already in the hands of terrorists like BJP. atleast our terrorists are not in power, u vote for urs. ur terrorists are ur ‘eleceted govts’…is this ur funny idea of democracy? thank God we’re not a democracy like u
Asima…
“whats wrong with selling technology?” read below link and let me know if it was not wrong then what happend in Pakistan which made this whole controversy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan
“it wont be hard for ISI to support khalistan n the likes n divide india into pieces. ” well it has been hard for ISI to do anything in India in last 50 years.. but Raw has done it.. remember Bangladesh used to be apart of Pakistan.. Now as its not possible for ISI to do anything, its trying dirty tricks with LeT and other morons.
“since when has the US president become the unbiased judge of right or wrong? if he ever was, then iraq shud hav been full of WMDs.”
Yes i agree.. but then if you are so unhappy about the USA’s policies.. why dont u return the money they have given you.. stop having double statndards.
“Nange se to Bhagwan bhi darta hai”
I wonder how scared bhagwan is of the bollywood then :)
Go and cover your hindu sisters and mothers, before you quote this to others please.
“remember Bangladesh used to be apart of Pakistan.”
I think we remember it, so why do you cry out when we remind you of it ??
Hi,
I don’t agree with your views at all. The recent incidents in Lahore have confirmed my worst fears that Pakistan has now tipped over the edge and is in the hands of terrorists. It’s time we come out of this state of denial and clean up the scourge of terrorism from our soil.
hi
i just wanna appeal all of you we r muslims n obey the rules of islam. islam prohibits terrorism. islam is the religen of peace,love n mutual respect. islam is the religen of human value n dignity. islam does not support terrorism under any circumatances.
islam means peace n muslims means a believer from whose hands n tongue the others are safe. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT A TRUE MUSLIM CAN BE A TERRORIST.
I m not trying to say that the muslim community is perfect im not saying that the muslim community does not hv any bad element . what i m trying to convey is a request to entire media organization to be fair n honest in their reporting.
treat the muslim community as u treat the christian n jewish communities
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