Evidence of Mumbai Attack Still Awaited

{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }

1 mvinay 12.16.08 at 11:18 am

@Junaid
The paste below is from my previous entry on othre blog on the same site. Please defend this

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/SAserials/Dawn/dawn.html

This webite has archives of old Pakistani Newspapers (dawn) and you can check the news. Particular interest is the one published on July 10th 1999 where Mr. Nawaz Sharif (then PM) denies Kargil infiltration and blames it on Mujahiddin’s. He also goes on to say he would meet the Muahiddin’s to withdraw from Kargil.

For the next obvious question for people in Pakistan who stand by “It was the Mujahiddin’s in Kargil”, you can check the video’s of dead pakistani soilders being returned to your army after the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS8cKBgNsOI

For people living in the present, you claim victory on Kargil while all your government (1999 rule) told Pakistan was not involved in Kargil. Do we still believe your Government who say they have no role in the Mumbai attacks?

History has taught us whom to believe and the last Government India will ever believe is Pakistan (please do not take it as a personal offence). Similar incidents have even taught our dumb politician not to trust Pakistan.

If you are in Karachi ask anyone in the neighbourhood area of the addresses below. Dawood was staying in these locations for a while but constantly moving around. He did however spend majority of the time in the Clifton area. Being in India I cannot cook up addresses but these are open secrets even we people 5000Kms know

617 CP Berar Society, Block 7-8, Karachi, Pakistan;

House No. 37, Street 30, Phase V, Defence Housing Authority, Karachi, Pakistan;

House No. 10, Hill Top Arcade, Defence Housing Authority, Karachi, Pakistan;

Moin Palace, 2nd Floor, Opp. Abdullah Shah Gazi Dargah, Clifton, Karachi, Pakistan

2 Nandu Nanu 12.17.08 at 12:22 pm

Do pakistanis ask for evidence for everything. when Zaid Hamid has said that its all planned by India then whats the need of evidence.
Amar Singh and Heeralal definitely did attack on India and Zaid Hamid knew it for very long time.
UN US and whoever are blamiing pakistan, should ask Zaid Hamid in future for anything they want to know.

3 mvinay 12.17.08 at 2:44 pm

@Junaid
Can you please repond to my previous post

4 FoS 12.17.08 at 4:23 pm

Pakistanis claim victory to kargil, the question is: What did they succeed in? Mushy planned to “hoist the flag of Pakistan atop Srinagar assembly”. Did this happen? So Pakistan failed in its attempt to capture Kashmir. They did not capture even a single milimeter of Kashmir. That means they failed on their objectives - (1) Never got a single spec of Indian land, (2) The “Jihadi” cover was blown (3) Pakistan suffered far more damage, in lives lost and economic loss than India - Nawaz declared if India blockes Karachi using its naval might, Pakistan would only survive for 7 days. Now I ask under What circumstance did Pakistan win?
Now for India: Their ONLY objective was to protect Indian territorial integrity from whoever, whether Jehadis or Pakistanis. And they clearly succeeded in this. Not a single spec of land was lost in any sector. India’s losses were far smaller than Pakistans, although they deployed more soldiers.
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So In India’s case, they acheived their objectives (protect territorial integrity). In Pakistan’s case, they didn’t.
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So who won the war is loud and clear.
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Winning a war is all about acheiving objectives for the war. It’s not about anything else. In fact it is not at all about casualities or who’s airforce was stronger etc. In the Vietnam War, North Vietnam was the winner because they succesfully defended South Vietnam; although they suffered twice the number of casualities; and despite superior US air power support to the South.
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Similarly, in ALL indo-Pakistani wars (spare 48, a stalemate), India was the winner because in 1965 and 1999, Pakistan clearly failed in its Mission to recapture Kashmir, while India succesfully defended its territorial integrity. In 1971, India’s objective was to liberate Pakistan, which it succeeded in. In 1948, both countries objective was solely to capture Kashmir in full, but both only got a portion. So it’s a stalemate. But note that the stalemate tends to tilt in India’s favour because India captured the capital and most populous city (Srinagar), the most fertile tracts (northern areas are largely barren areas with no flora while Indian Kashmir is suitable for growing all sorts of things) and COMPLETE CONTROL of the glacial sources that feed ALL of Pakistan’s rivers (its lifelines), except Chenab, which originates in Himachal, India.

5 M Junaid Khan 12.17.08 at 6:32 pm

@Mvinay!
Sorry for my delayed response. I havent checked either of the link but i am sure what you have said will be right. There are few things which you should know about Kargil War even though its beyond the scope of this discussion.
1) Kargil War was fought jointly by Mujahideen and Pakistani Paramilitary troops and that is evident from numerous international studies that were later on conducted by independent institutions including few American think tanks. Therefore, you are totally wrong in claiming that the operation was purely fought by Pakistan paramilitary troops. The famous Lashkhar e Taiba was part of it and that is one reason Pakistani nation still highly regard them.
2) Moreover, all those Pakistani paramilitary soldiers who sacrificed their lives in Kargil War were rewarded with highest military honors and that is evident from the fact that highest military awards of Nishan e Haider were given to many of them who sacrificed their lives to defend their country. Moreover, the paramilitary wing of NLI (Northern Light Infantry) was inducted into the proper army as a reward to the those who fought this war.
3) Do keep it in mind that only few thousand Pakistani paramilitary soldiers as well as Mujahideen were fighting on those heights while India deployed its full military strength of 2 Corps and numerous brigades along with full air support to dismantle them in total 77 days. Even that would not have been possible if Pakistani politicians didn’t bent to the diplomatic pressure.
4) The myth that Indians held that they can roll over Pakistan in just few weeks was shattered as they found it hard to dismantle few thousand civilian and paramilitary combatants and hence the recent rhetoric by many Indians on this blog that you can destroy Pakistan in just few days is wrong. Also Kargil operation was basically launched to silence Indian guns whose regular artillery barrage on Pakistani villages and civilian population as well as their effort to cut Pakistan army supplies passing through Neelum valley. Pakistan made it clear to the Indians that they can respond to such provocations in a befitting manner and choke thousands of Indian soldiers illegally occupying Siachen heights.
Lastly, all the above discussion has nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks as i am still looking forward to get any real proof from our neighbors on this matter. And if you quote Dawn for me, then do read today edition in which it says that FBI officials who investigated Kasab have clearly said that ISI has nothing to do with the Mumbai attacks so i am sure now you have your answer and its better you start looking somewhere else but i wonder why the unbiased Indian media didn’t give any publicity to that news? Can they now apologize to ISI for all their language and propaganda when your new newly made American friends have diverted their blame from Pakistan?
Anyways, i will stop here as i am extremely short on time due to some personal commitments.

6 M Junaid Khan 12.17.08 at 6:47 pm

@FOS!
So you agreed to the fact that India liberated Pakistan in 1971 and hence you have yourself justified any Pakistani incursion in Kashmir or any other place in India so ask your government to stop crying on media and claim to be the lamb when in reality it always played the role of the wolf.
Your government has also got the history of interference in its neighboring countries like Sri Lanka where it sent its military and only returned when it was humiliated. It has played double role in Nepal where it was officially taking the side of the dictatorial king and supporting the communist party through the RAW. It also intervened in Maldives to support the unpopular leader. The problem is that only in case of Pakistan, it gets a befitting response almost all the times. Even now India is actively interfering in Pakistani tribal areas as well as in Baluchistan. The famous case of the person whom our government release on humanitarian ground recently is a case in point of active RAW involvement in bombings in Pakistan. The presence of Indian commandoes in Afghanistan border with Pakistan has been reported by many independent news.
Pakistan’s problem is our politicians who tend to get too soft on the Indians.

7 mvinay 12.17.08 at 7:23 pm

@Junaid
On the links I sent it was clean statements by your government denying Pakistan Army presence in Kargil. India then threatned to attack Pakistan and only then did US interfere and stop the imminent war between the nations. Pakistan never accepted Kargil was their war until everything was subdued and area cleared. It did take the Indian forces 77 days to clear the area since it involved diplomatic ways of driving the Mujahiddins (now Pakistanis). Everytime India took on Kargil it was not India crying to America but Pakistan claiming India was entering Pakistani border and using Uncle Sam for cover. All Pakistani newspaper are in the archive go on read them at leisure.

With the Government finally showering Medals to the martyer it just showcases the two face governing authority in India. Indians always feel Pakistan wages a proxy war with the LeT, Taliban in the front end. I even wonder how a army you boast of even align with terrorist outfits like LeT? You accept the fact that LeT was part of your army and now you have banned them due to international presurre!!!!!!!! I dont think India has ever deserted its friends even under threat or international pressure. Take for example Tibet, India acknowledges Dalai Lama has been given asylum in India and inspite of China threatening to attack India for this reason we have not deserted our friends (I dont think India has anything to gain from Dalai Lama since the territory is already under China). Pakistan ISI has just used the LeT and finally got down to killing them for having supported Pakistan during needy times, gosh now LeT has my sympathy.

I REPEAT NO PAKISTANI POLITICIAN AT THAT TIME EVER ACCEPTED IT WAS PAKISTAN IN KARGIL, QUITE SIMILAR TO THE CLAIM YOU MAKE ON THE MUMBAI ATTACKS.

India did let FBI interrogate Kasab for 9 hours, when you can grasp ISI was not involved in the attack how could you possible miss the result of the same interrogation that proved he was a PAKISTANI CITIZEN (please read the press release again).

Final Inference: Pakistan ISI nurtured LeT for years but now deserted them due to International pressure, the LeT is now independent with ISI having no control over them even on Pakistani soil. They are now attacking Pakistan and India.

Result: India is paying for the folly ISI made years ago, now tell me who needs to apolozise to whom?

8 mvinay 12.17.08 at 7:53 pm

@Junaid

PROOF OF PAKISTANN DENYING INVOLVEMENT IN KARGIL IN 1999

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/352995.stm

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9907/12/india.pakistan.03

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/area-studies/SouthAsia/SAserials/Dawn/dawn.html

India never crossed the Pakistan border during this encounter and Pakistan wanted India to cross the border and get International sympathy by claiming it was India who started the war. Pakistan with its entire army concentrated on the small Kargil hill held back “2 Corps and some brigades for 77 days”. 2 Corps + few brigades is all India needed to take on the entire Pak army, I can imagine the result if the entire Indian army was sent.

PLEASE NOTE I DID NOT HACK INTO BBC AND CNN WEBSITE AND CHANGE THE ARCHIVES

9 M Junaid Khan 12.17.08 at 9:05 pm

Now you are talking out of context here. So i think its a wastage of time. First of all, LeT is banned by UN and hence Pakistan is just complying with the international community like a dedicated member of it unlike India which has yet to comply to the Kashmir resolution which UN passed 50 years back. Plus go and do some basic research and even wikipedia will answer your query that it was Entire Indian army against limited LeT members. Moreover, during Kargil War, your 750,000 army was deployed in Kashmir and hence you were left with nothing to wage an all out war and that is why you never dared to do that. The opposite was the case in 1965 where you started an all out war once you were defeated on Kashmir front so i wonder how a nation can not do what it had done before. And LoC is not a border and that is why it what is agreed between both India and Pakistan and hence crossing it is nothing big.
ISI is a very patriotic organization and it has proved it over the past decades. The Dalai Lama incident is what i forgot to mention and thanks again for reminding me about it and it is another case which shows how India didnt even leave China at peace and interfered in its internal matters. Don’t blame Pakistan for keeping Dawood Ibrahim when you yourself justify the presence of Dalai Lama. I wonder how double standards you are showing here in your own text. Asking us to give you Dawood Ibrahim when you are holding Dalai Lama?
So better correct your own facts before pointing fingers at others.

10 M Junaid Khan 12.17.08 at 9:08 pm

By the way do check the same BBC and CNN to tell your about the Indian atrocities in Kashmir and about your country interference in other peaceful nations. And yes Indians army did cross international boundary in Bangladesh in 1971 without any provocation and proved that it will never miss a chance to hit its neighbors.

11 mvinay 12.18.08 at 3:33 am

@Junaid
WHY DID YOUR POLITICIANS DENY PAKISTAN HAD NO ROLE IN KARGIL???
DO WE BELIEVE THE SAME POLITICIANS WHO SAY THEY ARE NOT INVOLVED IN MUMBAI??

A couple of weeks ago Kasab was a Indian (BJP, RSS, BAJRANG part) and now he is a Pakistani, your so called US freind has confirmed it. Take their word not ours since Pakistan beleives only what Uncle Sam as to say.

Pakistan after the 1971 debacle, surrendered and signed a document recognising LOC as the border. Shoild India take such drastic step to reemind you again?

Yes, we have the Dalai Lama and we are pround of it but incidently the same person has won the Nobel peace prize and well respected. It is just too mean to compare Dalai Lama and Dawood. Maybe people like Dawood are peace keepers in Pakistan and thanks for acknowledging he is in Pakistan (truth dawns).

Pakistani Citizens are being ruled by the ISI and ARMY and you are contended with the pseudo freedom. Fact, no elected Government in Pak has lasted a full term for the past 60 years.

BBC and CNN published articles that states Pakistan claims “XYZ people were killed in Kashmir” similar articles can be found with India stating Pakistan has been responsible for similar killing.

The only time India crossed the border was 1971, guess what would happen is we do it again. Thanks for reminding

12 mvinay 12.18.08 at 4:00 am

@Junaid
All the statements you made can be directly traced to Zaid hamid stating. As President of ZAID HAMID FAN CLUB, I recognize you as my vice president :-)

13 M Junaid Khan 12.18.08 at 5:18 am

Try not getting personal. Go to read on some basic etiquette of discussion and then come back to comment.

14 FoS 12.18.08 at 9:40 am

Don’t bang on a typo. I meant liberation of Bangladesh. Every country acts according to geopolitical circumstances, just like Pakistan’s intervention of Afghanistan, and US’s intervention of Pakistan.
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Sri Lanka - You say we were humiliated? OK tell me which of the 4 operations IPKF launched against LTTE was a failure? Even till this day Sri Lanka is appealing to India for support to wipe out LTTE. Sri Lanka’s defence minister recently said “if only India can join Sri Lanka against the LTTE, we can wipe them out in a few hours”. Apart from that India supplies radars, ships, training, intelligence and access to Indian satellite images to Sri Lanka free of charge. So it is Sri Lanka who’s seeking our intervention.
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Maldives - When LTTE captured Maldives, Maldives president who was running from house to house asked US, UK and India for assistance. What did US and UK do? Nothing. India airlifted 1,500 men to Maldives within 24 hours and recaptured Maldives within another 24 hours. Or else Maldives will be known as Tamil Eelam today. Apart from that India supplies Maldives with essentials (rice, sugar, oil etc.) on a subsidised account, as well as provides training and equipment for Maldives forces. Again, Maldives seeks our intervention.
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Nepal - India always supports democracy but was playing a double game with the Maoists because Maoists are a threat in India! They are a banned organization. And Nepal Maoists were alligned with Indian Maoists. So what do you expect? It’s exactly what ISI is doing; playing a double game with “good Taliban” (Mullah Omar, Jalaluddin Haqqani, Gulbadin Hekmatyar) and “bad Taliban” (Baitullah Mehsud, Mullah Fadlullah, Lal Masjid brigade). This is called geopolitics. Only thing India doesn’t deal with global errorists that wreck havoc all over the world. And pretend fighting just to get US arms and money. Moreover India is Nepals major supplier of essentials and military and monetary aid. We know what happened to Nepal when India cut ties with nepal in the 70s / 80s.
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Afghanistan - Presence of Indian security guards are to secure the team completing the ongoing pledged projects India is undertaking in Afhanistan like roads, power lines etc. Moreover these forces are important especially after allied troops in Afghanistan couldn’t stop the embassy bombing. *ahem ahem* so who have us this opportunity again?
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Regarding Bangladesh, remember, it was Pakistan that gave India a reason to intervene in liberating Bangladesh: It launched a preliminary airstrike on India. Only after that airstrike (compounded by millions of Bangladeshi refugees pouring into India), India got itself involved. But here’s some piece of intelligence I’ve not confirmed its authencity. Apparently India purposely fed intelligence into the Pakistani leadership that India was planning for an airstrike on Pakistan. This was to make Pakistan attack India first, so that India’s actions of defending itself can be justified. And Pakistan fell into the pit India dug and launched preliminary bombardment on Indian airfields and that move caused the loss of Bangladesh.
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The previous message was clearly to prove to naysayers what’s the definition of “winning a war” and trying to infer whether people’s claims about Pakistan winning this and that is logical.

15 FoS 12.18.08 at 10:11 am

He is comparing Dalai Lama to Dawood Ibrahim LOLLL. Anyway India never hides Dalai Lama anywhere. Everybody knows where he is and anybody is free to visit him in Dharamsala and he’s free to travel around the world. Just recently France’s president met him against China’s will. And India is honoured to host Dalai Lama
So if Pakistan and Pakistanis are proud of hosting Dawood Ibrahim (on same lines as Dalai Lama), please openly declare where he is. Can you press your new found democratically elected government to do that?
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you can say whatever about kargil. here are the cold hard facts. 1. pakistan never acheived its objectives of capturing even a spec of indian land, while india acheived its objectives of defending its territory. 2. india almost brought pakistan to its knees had it launched a naval blockade of karachi - pakistan was left with 1 week of supplies, according to Nawaz. this prompted a ceasefire. so you can say what you want, Musharrafs brainchild was failed. period.
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(i mean no personal offence to pakistanis. engaging in online discussion / argument is far better than going to war - and more beneficial).

16 Nandu Nanu 12.18.08 at 10:53 am

Junaid. its more than personal here.

17 Nandu Nanu 12.18.08 at 11:04 am

Junaid fan club start karo.

Awesome logic Dawood ibrahim = Dalai Lama.

Very original and world class. Pakistanis are great when it comes to thinking.

18 M Junaid Khan 12.18.08 at 11:17 am

The so called knowledged citizens of India should come out with the list of activities that Dalai Lama did in order to bring peace into the world. Please do list the fact that he is trying to break away a part of an independent communist country with which India fought a war and was humiliated. Just to push the
our Chinese brothers, the US and its allies awarded Dalai Lama with a noble prize was to give him some credibility which he seriously lacks otherwise. I think Bono is more deserving then Dalai Lama :) and even Angelina Jolie is more deserving.
Just to update you that Sri Lanka is asking India to help them in removing the threat of LTTE because the LTTE is getting a lot of support from Indian Tamils.

19 Lt. General Ayub Khan 12.18.08 at 12:14 pm

hey — indian

are u retarded???

LeT has been banned since 2002. Jamaat ud Dawa is a charity organization. But since govt gave the order to shut down and monitor some of their offices, we did so.

u bloody indians are a real headache. fix your own problems first — 700 million in your country are starving…..and they are neglected just because they are dalit sect

lol

20 hahaha 12.18.08 at 1:41 pm

Ok bro. so you say tibet is part of china; i presume because the (then) dalai lama acceeded to the Qing emporor in the 17th century. although it was against the will of the tibetian people (many didn’t even know about it), the ruler’s mandate holds water till this day and even you accept China’s aovereignity over Tibet. Hopefully you and your other pakistanis can also realise that kashmir too was mandated by its ruler to india (irrespective of peoples will) and so kashmir belongs to india. but still comparing a class 1 criminal on interpol list to a peace loving dalai lama is the joke of the month. when answers have been given about the logic of pakistan’s flunked wars, our friend turns to china. i dont know why pakistanis live and breathe china. i mean using chinese underwear and chinese cars and bikes are common in pakistan, thats fine. but even using china to save your back. hmmm…
gen ayub khan, we are minding our own problem but you are disturbing us by sending terrorists to do some cowardly job and asking some crackos to come on tv to justify they are not pakistanis by merely looking at there face and some string on their hand. we dont care what jamat is. the fact is it is now banned as a terrorist front, thats enough. [charity can mean many things. charity for what?]. yes indians are starving and we cant just sway a magic wand and give everyone money to buy food. we are well on track on our poverty eradication program, our literacry program, power for all program etc. and even dalit upliftment. now we even have a dalit political party called samajwadi party which rules uttar pradesh, indias most populace state. its ruler is mayawati who wanna become pm. thanks for your concern. now just look at your backyard and see whats the status of it. i dont need to go on further about ur account balance and designations.
peace.

21 mvinay 12.18.08 at 2:28 pm

Lets restructure everything in the world and make it ideal

1. Pakistan will be made the capital of the world.
2. Chinese brothers will inherit everything if something were to happen to Pakistan.
3. All Nobel prizes issued to date will be taken back including that of CV Raman, Chandrashekar, Dalai Lama, Tagore, Amartya Sen etc and will be awarded to ISI (Physics), Zaid Hamid (for literature), Dawood (Peace), Maulana Masood (Science), Tiger Menon (Philosophy), Osama (Economy). This will be called the ultimate nobel prize meaning it will be awared to same people every year until they choose to give it to someone else.
4. There will be one new PM for Pakistan every minute who will also happen to be the worlds PM. Pakistan believes in democracy and hence every citizen deserves to be a PM for atleast minute. No elections will be held and will start from the letter Z to A.
5. All US citizens will have to submit to Pakistan and accept all the wrong doing including inventing the F16 and shipping it to Pakistan.
6. Henceforth any rule made by Pakistan would be the ultimate including in field of science, medicine, physics and law. Anyone opposing the rule will be jailed and made to listen to lousy jokes of Jay Leno. Equally anyone who abides all the rules will be rewarded by a personal dinner with Zaid and endowed with the honor of listening to him 24 hrs.
7. Women can no longer loiter outside anyone found doing so will be punished according to Taliban law. Women cannot drive or obtain a license since they do not require a car to travel from the kitchen to the bedroom.
8. Israeli citizens are not human and will be isolated in Hawai / Seychelles as punishment. Pakistan will be courteous enough to give them a choice.
9. America will also be punished into giving aid to Pakistan. Pakistan demands and they need to cough up.
10. Red Cross will no longer be operational and all charity work will be undertaken by JuD.
11. There are 700M people starving in India and the rest are well fed since they happen to be Muslims. Only a Muslim can henceforth eat to his full and the entire world needs to starve.
12. The ban on LeT will be lifted and every house in the world will have to carry the words “TO LeT”

These are the twelve commandments sent by Pakistan for global peace, if this is not accepted there will be no peace whatsoever.

22 G-unit 12.18.08 at 6:46 pm

Mvinay nobel prize for physics should be awarded to AQ Khan. ISI and Al-Qaeda should apply for ISO certification. Jamat Ud Dawa should replace UNICEF. Lashkar would replace UN Peacekeeping Force.

23 Zaid Hamid 12.18.08 at 8:11 pm

good one vinay. just wanted to add one more.
all the universities will be converted into Madarsas.

24 mvinay 12.19.08 at 1:32 am

@ GUnit and Zaid Hamid
Are you a Pakistani to dictate this change? You have no right to make any changes. The 12 commandments were given by the ISI and cannot be negotiated. Both of you are guilty under Article 6 (read above)

25 Dawood Ibrahim lama 12.19.08 at 9:24 am

I agree. i beg your pardon mr president. i just used some commonsense here completely forgot thnat this site/forum is called Pro-pakistan the most advanced/educated, secular,great standards for woman and not radical at all- UCP United Countries of Pakistan.

26 g-unit 12.19.08 at 10:16 am

nawaz sharif has also said the ajmal kasav is pakistani . see http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200812191433.htm now what more prove do you need? your ex pm and prominant opposition leader already accepts it. its the work of pakistan. proven beyond doubt. i first had some reservations thinking it could be a us collussion but now when even ur ex-pm admits, what more can any1 say?

27 mvinay 12.19.08 at 1:40 pm

@G-Unit
Dont yo ever learn?? It is we Indians who are at fault. Pakistan handed a simple 12 point commandment which everyone needs to follow for world peace. You were found guilty earlier and I warned you, now again you are violating the same rule. This is the final warning and you better heed else the entire ISI, Pakistan Army backed by F16’s will bombard the hell out of you.
You Indians cant follow a simple 12 point rule and expect peace!!!!

28 G-unit 12.19.08 at 7:51 pm

Sorry bro… i will follow it from this moment. pakistan zindabad pakistani zindabad everything else murdabad.

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