The real picture of Afghanistan, there is No military solution ever

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The real picture of Afghanistan, there is No military solution ever | Tea Break

11.20.08 at 3:21 am

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1 Malik 11.20.08 at 8:13 pm

Pakistan Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Pavaz Kayani…….

ZINDABAD……………….

2 onix 11.25.08 at 1:52 pm

Not many responses. I think the point should be made afghanistan had not been attacked if not for the treatment of woman (girls) and civil libertys. I hope one day the world will find a formula to cope with islam culture like that, i envision some agreement that would acknowledge sexual equality and individual freedom (of religion and expression). To my regret, many people here(eu) just like me don’t believe in the innocence of islam culture in that respect.
Myself i drew the conclusion that islam is somewhat more clear about its intentions, and somewhat more ready to lift *all* the people on a spiritual and social level, (except the woman..), it has somewhat more respect for the natural instincts of a population (mainly in a somewhat obsessive persuasion of justice).

yet it is more old fashioned then ethics that evolved in technologically advanced nations. To the point that it appears barbaric and primitive.
How will afghanistan adress this?
Like the situation is now, i wonder if there is any will or attempt to really adress the issues. As the article rightly remarks, there have been 4 generations raised with war, struggle, independence and safety issue’s occupy the peoples minds. There is a connotation of spoiled relations, pashtun ‘tribes’, and on the background yet a worldwide fear for islam.
If that issue could be adressed and settled anything would change. Don’t think to well of islam governments. we are well aware aware many stubbornly resist modernisation, well aware many a population is checked in this situation with the means of islam and well aware muslim nations are not any less nepotist, elitarist, and even ‘neocon’ and agressive then ours.

There is a strong trend in islamic nations not to change government , usurpate presidency for life, and deny woman. Muslim people are apt at venerating their examples, those however in terms of social justice often don’t seem to know to make a point.(saudi arabia eg.).

As a general picture human rights appear to be sidelined,
can you imagine a different world with only the certainty there is no eternal truth in a book, but just a collection of human attempts for improvement, feels scared of that doctrine? that we are scared? as much for your as for our “sake”?

Back to the subject. afghanistan, it would feel pretty lousy to see afghanistan shape into some kind of oppresive islamic state (like before), lousy if they continue fighting amongst themselves, lousy when the opium production is not properly handled, (what is proper there…i think is a worldwide experiment with educational characteristics that apreciates the potential of natural medicine)
very lousy if woman and girls would further be the scapegoat, lousy if it came to conflict with pakistan, lousy if foreign fighters export the struggle henceforth.
Lousy if the populace is treated with the religion elixer. Lousy even if people *have to* live under islam.. we don’t mind living with islam. we mind an islam that wants people to live *under* it. That accepts, or is used(!) to keep people under. (the general trend is to reflect a people that opresses woman will also disallow man to emancipate).

This ‘emancipate’ is the doing away of medieval values, xenofobia, sexe”roles”, and that god, king nor country has the right to sacrifice human lives on battle fields , i admit most don’t have the grasp of these principles here either. Still we have our system organised to try to deal with them. This can also be applied to pakistan.

Ofcourse it is less specific then it seems, islam facilitates governance, just like and in a similar way roman katholicism does. From the ‘enlightened’ point of view, rationality, then there is not much difference between them. It looks different, but the intends are from another era, when cavalry advance dictated the speed of civilisation.
Such sets of values have resulted in disaster before,
Napoleon for example crowned himself, with a papal crown, just because it worked for the mindset of the people. the “furer princip” is another such example, likewise we see a lot of african nations in trouble because power became usurpated after colonialism, (decolonisation is a natural in (humanist) rationalism). We also see the muslim rulers play a powerplay that suits the mindset with wich napoleon crowned himself. This is an abuse of religion that itself should be free.

(if you are religious, god was as free as to create people when she became bored, she wanted them to be free. well i guess u will say, that what we(?) have angels with flaming swords for, show me one angel with flaming sword that stopped a person from even a criminal freedom though, if there are angels with fs, they serve another purpose. perhaps to show that the limit of freedom is war)

I think religion is wacko, you can proof anything with it. if it doesnt work you just belief in sth else, angels, devils, that some people compare to dogs better then others, etc. This all is obviously not good for the ratio of the people, in any case, even the religious one, people should be ruled by ‘making sense’, thats why a ‘religious state’ has no authority, you need a rational one.

Soo, like napoleon needed to crown himself, we will have to deal with the ceremony’s of the past. Being what we are, the colonisater, the imperialists, and the capitalists, we made many mistakes, and struggled with the inherited religious population here a lot, the outcome is ridiculous, a vatican, a pope, a gazillion other eucemenic churches, crappy sects, (i think it’s mostly just desperate people in a desperate world), traditional sects(..) most in usa fortunately, ceremony’s with flags, nations ‘under’ god (but not a bible),
swearing on a ‘holy’ bible tho.. the roman katholics had people burned for the holyness of their damned bible a lot.. the list goes on. The only difference is, that despite all our flaws, and handicaps, we try to get over such values that made us burn , fight and chop up people, and that at least that effort is mainstream.

(by far not everyone resists eg. the pope like they might, yet his influence (except the occasional usefull idea) is nill in europe outside some in the latin part of the former roman empire. Luther eg. refered to popes as one very unholy idea of the particular church, later luther’s followers massacred (who again) in sweden, luther dead by then ofcourse.

If that proofs anything? religion is **** and it will be used that way. With us ,
heathens, atheists, christians, if we allow it such position(we don’t), and with you muslims, for years and probably instances or installments of governments to come. That is the natural development of society’s buggered by religions.

I would grant the “christians” safety when i could, and i think “muslims” will be safer when they know this about religion.

In hinduism religion doesnt seem as opportune in politics, boedhism appears the most tolerant, shinto doesnt bother me at all, confutze to old fashioned.

Other religions are not in a position of power, and strangely relate rather well to this cause of rationality. This is definetly relative, the moment i say this, budhism could be used as a tool more, and traditional shinto-ism may be intolerant or narrowminded, i don’t know, i usually like what it comes up with and they literally ‘don’t bother me’ perhaps because its just one nation only, a matter of scale, or on an island and isolated and far away.

okay that is a great load of text to say the same, but i would like afghanistan to step into the 21st century next. Not curse geopolitics/sociopolitics with another fossil. It appears an utopian wish.

An utopian wish would also be to evacuate afg., there are not that many people in afghanistan and it looks like it could do for a few decades without people, in fact it will be an awfull job to turn it into anything more then a poor costly and woman-unfriendly state, it would be much cheaper to grant them all 20 year visa first.
Much faster to show them some “culture” , sorry to say. Since there is not tse tse or malaria i also wonder what employment such a project would facilitate.
it looks like a nice experiment, good place to practice gletsher making for the himalaya later etc.

3 shahzad 01.05.10 at 4:03 pm

sorrywant to know more

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