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 In an amazing development, which was long awaited, Indian Car manufacturer Tata has acquired two premium brands Land Rover and Jaguar. The details of the detail are yet to be made public but the expected price is around $2 billion and further investments as per their five year plan. Indian companies are globally acquiring top brands and jumping into premium businesses, which until recently was never touched by them. I personally believe that Tata will keep its Jaguar and Land Lover brands separate from its other cars, which include the world cheapest Tata Nano. They will not let the cheap brands affect the brand of luxury brands like Jaguar and Land Rover.
This whole new development compelled me to think about the car manufacturers in Pakistan, who are still unable to take off from the ground and highly dependent on government policies and subsidies. Government of Pakistan recently with draw the 2.5 % with holding tax on the cars for two months to give positive boost to the sales of cars in Pakistan. The decreasing demand is because of law and order situation, increasing inflation and the option of importing Japnese manufactured cars. Since the local car manufacturers don’t believe in improving their quality, they will always be dependent on government subsidies.
Car giant Ford is to sell its luxury UK-based car marques Jaguar and Land Rover to Indian company Tata.
Tata, India’s biggest vehicle maker, is likely to pay about $2bn (£1bn) in the deal, although analysts will be keen to see the exact price and terms. The lengthy sale process started last June when Ford announced its intention to sell the companies as a packag
Jaguar and Land Rover employ about 16,000 staff at plants across the West Midlands and Merseyside. Tata accounts for more than half of the sub-continent’s truck market and has about 20% of India’s car market. (Source BBC )
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Good article Mr Junaid.
it’s 3rd article from you on Tata.are u his fan
well i think that this 2.65billion$ is just like a bet.The main aim is to :
1)Absorb the technology ,for making good qty of car
2)Tata is not going to hire any more from UK/USA for these factories.Probably they will slowly start downsizing (by not recruiting anyone)
3)Tata can make good hybrid models at (India,Thailand)using Land rover and Jaguar
4)As Nano gave Tata a name in the global auto market,this acquisition will boost the image .
5)Tata has already financed a company and bought a technology for Hydrogen car.That will cost about 4 lak INR
6)Tata next buyout is an American chemical company for 1 billion$
Regarding pakistan:
1)To make a car from scratch is like reinventing the wheels.pakistan is over reliable on suzuki,toyota and chinese company
2)Even thailand lacked major auto manifacturing industry.but it attaracted Tata,mahindra and other big shots who are attracted by the investor friendly policy
3)Recently Sri lanka is going to be on manufacturing scene bcoz of their FTA with India.
Although they were afraid initial to implement FTA with india but now they are gaining investment of 500million $alone from india. and its likely to increase further as lanka currency is weak.probably Mahindra is setting up a plant in lanka
4)Similarly Tata wanted to invest in bangladesh but in bangladesh ,there is a kind of some mess and for last 5 years they have not been able to take any decision on industrial investment(apart from telecom investment).
5)pakistan is an ally of china.chinese company: Chery motors produce a number of cars in china.i dont understand why pakistan cant tell them to set up a big plant(1 lak+ capacity) in pakistan..BUt main prob is that chinese yuan is fixed and it will be always cheaper to produce in china than pakistan…ANd china have FTA with pakistan but what i see is that chinese companies are not even interested in setting up in telecom hardware/mobile and electronics….
6)Tata daewoo is present in pakistan but they openly assemble Tata-Daewoo trucks ..
pakistan should formulate new policy for auto sector.
1)stress on 2 wheelers …i mean :to allow foreign company to manufacture in pak
2)once pak gets most of components being manufactured at home ,4 wheelers will love to do come to pak due to its cheap labour and weak currency………..
thoughtful comments by dhiraj
cheers!
Dhiraj thanks for following me on all the three articles. I must admit that Tata do impress me keeping in mind the fact that Tata is an Indian firm is even more impressive. Now i agree with you on what you said and i must add something on the issue of Chinese investment. First, production in China is much cheaper then any other country and the reason Tata is avoiding it is political and not economics. Secondly, with my little interaction with Chinese i learned that they are nationalist in their nature and hence they try their best to prefer China and Chinese over any one else. China has recently made its first foreign investment in a telecommunication company in Pakistan through Paktel, which has been acquired by China Mobile. The are heavily investing in the company and as per my statistics, since am in telecom industry myself, they are planning to invest around $2 billion in the next two years. Chinese have also invested heavily on our Gawadar Deep Port project and Saindak Mining Project as well. I have no doubts that China did a lot for Pakistan as a friend as compared to any other country including USA.
Now since Businesses don’t survive on friendships, therefore, the idea of Cherry investing in Pakistan, is not feasible for them at this stage. Anyways, let’s expect some positive changes in the auto sector of Pakistan and thanks again for giving us such a detail comment. I truly learn a lot of new things from people like you.
Regards,
[...] the luxury auto brands with its staid but profitable line-up of cars, trucks and…www.reuters.comJaguar Sold to TataWorld Premium brands Jaguar and Land Rover have been purchased by Indian auto giant Tata in a deal [...]
ya i heard about paktel.but telecom companies investment retrieve a lot of profits from a country.i am totally against a foreign company owning our telecom business.Even we have Vodafone which is british based and they control 15% of marketshare,but we were lucky with Tata,Reliance,Bharti,Birla in our telecom fields.
I categorize investment into two types
1)Long term
2)Soft term
in Longterm investment
a)Development of ports (Gwardar),manufacturing (electronics,software,consumer products,automobiles,chemical,pharma,Telecom hardware and other hardware ),
short term investment
A)Telecoms business:As every year they earn about 20-30% of money they invest in .
b)Real estate:once it is sold,all profit is repatriated in a go.
c)Assembling industry:Car/bikes/and machinery/electronics
.
1)what i found missing in pak is ,they have all of sudden allowed company to invest and own 100% in every sector.And the sale of public sector for very cheap amount is not good for your country.100% investment in telecom is useless but 100% investment in industries is useful
In india its still 74% as upper limit in telecom.
2)Pakistani banks are mostly owned by foreign players.although they might be following some regulatory policy but banking is a real sensitive issue …in india we dont even allow foreign banks to set up more than 10 branches every year
3)Pakistan should concentrate on chosen industry and go for brand building …Investment by foreign companies for consumption process might help pak with decent growth rates for few years but without having its own private established industry ,its 2 difficult to continue with the similar growth rate after consumption grows down.////
4)i was reading about the investment in karanchi island!!oh my god ,they are so costly ventures,probably made for rich classes.These UAE companies are clever and they are investing where the return is 50-60%.
i wouldnt like such investment in mumbai or any other parts of our country which doesnt benefit our full country
5)pakistan got about 10 billion$ from USA and got 25 billion$ loans waived off.
But what i hear is that
A very high% of budget is spent on defense.so much false claims about indigenous development of weapons is in pakistani minds,that every pakistani knows about ghauri and gajni……so i went into detailed study on missile development in pakistan…pakistan has produced few PHD”S but they have all this missile expertise..
some of facts
a)Pak missile program started with chinese M9/M11 missiles
gajni was made from these..Some USA reports even predict that there was complete Transfer of TEchnology(TOT)..short missiles were from china..
b)Korean No-Dong missiles were purchased and it was a complete TOT once bhutto visited north korea…..it was in exchange of uranium tech developed by pak from chinese design and URENCO(sweden) reactor secret files stolen…IRBM from north korea
c)Pak tested its atom bomb test which was supposed to be on uranium design ..but USA planes didnt pick up uranium traces..they later found plutonium traces 2 week later,which confirmed that U235 atom bombs somehow were not success..Later american report published that with in a week china sent some of their plutonium bombs..
D) in 2003/04 Libya leaked that pakistan A Q khan sold them uranium technology after they came to know that those bombs were not working …A Q khan was the biggest proliferator and he controlled a big gang …
E)Pakistan has never failed any single missile test…..
F)Nothing is transparent in pakistan missile technology…In india if we fail a test,it gets published and all deals are read..
Then i see last 61 years history and i find that india never attacked pakistan…even u can see the unbiased history texts and find the truth
a)1947:pakistan rangers attacked kashmir in 1947, and kashmir king signs a letter accession to india
b)1965:pak rangers+militants attack kashmir under a codenamed mission (operation Zibraltar),but public(kashmiri)doesnt support ,later it gets converted into full fledged war
c)1971:1-3 million genocide,10 million refugees into india,later attacking Indian air force fields (from kashmir,punjab ,rajasthan ,agra)leading to 71 war
d)in 1988,taking advantage of Rigging in indian kashmir elections,Zia sends 15000 foreign militants(tajik,ujbeji,afgani),,,.,,and provokes kashmir to promote terrorism…
coz until 1988,all kashmiris were happy,Sheikh abdulla was prime minister,they were happy…
a lot of tourism in kashmir,,and a lot of communal harmony..
but these sudden intrusion of terrorist+election rigging converted the valley into a battle …
10000 kashmiri hindus dead/hanged in a year,10 laks were forced to flee and kashmir which was called iran of india(coz of sufi islam and kashmiriyat)became a base of sunni radical islam……so now we have laks of indian army and we also have some human rights violation coz we have 2 control the valley from terrorists who are not indigenous..
e)1999:kargil another misadventure
so what i see is that :even being india a bigger nation has never been an aggressor .
and pakistan army since Zia by creating anti india(hindu) propaganda in books ,has produced so much fundamentalism in mind of pakistanis thats difficult to erase in few years…
In india we have never read any anti pak article in books.
Only since 1990’s we saw the bombing in mumbai,delhi,and kashmir and all were linked with terrorists of kashmir which came from other side of valley………even now no newschannel in india jst for sake of it,harp on any pakistani based matter in unbiased manner……but i remember few years back ,,there used 2 be a lecture of anti india talks on PTV>..some generals used to tell….it doesnt matter if terrorists kill few innocents children bcoz they are doing jihad…:)
what a bunch of fanatics….
especially that Gen aslam beig……..talks liek a talibani in veil….
later i found that pak always believed in bleed India strategy…….luckily we have fighting with terrorism since last 20+years and we have developed a big counter terrorism agency..as we were on receiving side..
how much time and funds Pakistan have invested in bad things…………..its not only India centric.they have done enough damage in their home2…
1)ISI manipulating politics in pak
2)creation of MQM to fight against PPP
3)so much of intervention ….
4)afganistan puppet taliban
5)Now nt they are soft with taliban..why not 2 kill them all and end such regimes……..
some where i got to hear that india is helping taliban..i felt ike laughing..oh my god…those a**
were the biggest prob in kashmir and IC814 hijacking..we have ethics…….
Then i see my all neighbors around
a)Bhutan was the poorest country and it had no resources…
but its 2 friendly 2 us……….India finances 75% of bhutan budget…we have set up 4-5 hydel plants and they are selling and earning revenue …….we are helping them harness hydel energy only source of income in bhutan…few factories are being set up in planes to export it to india…last year it had 17% GDP growth rate
b)Nepal:i know india has intervened in politics of nepal ,once china stepped into support of communalist…but we aid their 30% economy….set up schools ,colleges…can a country lke nepal survive on its own..it has no resources……and they are 2 corrupt…we have many gorkha regiments,..nepalis work in india…there is free movement across border…but they have more to gain more from us…but they need to be honest people first …
c)Bangladesh:India helped them liberate…but to no use…in last 37 years they have seen 10+ army coups…No democracy…too much corruption..again lot of anti india remarks..
.we give them second max aid(25 million $ )
.we sell rice to them at 25% cheaper price than world market and leave our poor hunger but they ll only blame
.india is the only nation which listens to bangladesh,nepal …we give aid ,and still listen to blame game…………..i read few articles..they wll say india is not selling us more rice…….
They dnt see that india also has 25 crore poor and we have to feed them 2……….and food grains prod is dropping world wise…
d)Sri -lanka:
we have a tamil land called tamil naidu…we cant openly support Them kill LTTE who have some sympathy with LTTE(a terrorist organization),as it can have effect on our tamil pop…
luckily india has learnt to deal with sri lanka…
1)we have Free trade with lanka
2)free trade has helped lanka and they can export more now
3)India investing heavily in lanka to produce and export it back to india (coz of weak lanka currency)
But i am happy with the present regime especially zardari…Nawaz sharif is leading for trouble..
1)Zardari comments regarding kashmir was a remarkable one….why did pak start to celebrate kashmiri day only since 1988/1989.??i thnk this year coincides with those 15000 terrorists entering into valley…:)
.kashmir was a safe place for tourism/cottage industry..but jihad mentality destroyed it…and the worst was that it came from other side of border..but now india has completely eliminats Laskhar and jaise+hizb commanders..some people of pakistan were crying foul after zardari comments…May be they still belive that they can support terror i n india while they can continue to fight against evil taliban at home….May be some people want kashmir to bcome another afganistan or some aim for acquiring kashmir
2)The best thing it happend in pakistan was that they saw bollywoood and it helped people change their minds about india..At least no more support for such notion:
black,kafur,hindus who always oppress muslims,sikhs
3)If india were in such condition as pak is now,we would have been attacked very badly in kashmir like it happend in 1965…we didnt even speak a chhiii about what is happening in pak.. but i remember pak govt criticizing so badly abt gujrat riots which was a very sad and pensive events…….well indian govt doesnt even know that there were 10%hindus in pak in 1971 ,which are reduced to 1%..we simply think……who cares ..they are pakistani hindus…………not our internal matter
4)we need a lot of trust……we need to stop intervening into each other territory.. pak hasnt told ever about india agency interference a into pak…even if we do any kind of intervention of any kind like disinformation(as i heard once from pak govt) ,we should nt do………..i havent seen any european country who resort to such cheap works….we should jst unilaterally destroy taliban and religious extremism from all kinds of society//
5)India has so far not invested in pakistan bcoz indians have very little faith in pakistan govt .///although we trade 5+billion$ via dubai……..but trust level is still low ..
6)i m hoping that PPP coalition doesnt turn out to be a hoax …and i have a lot of faith in their policies…Army should be left out of politics….and Intelligence agency shouldnt be so rogue nt like aslam beig who openly admits that we sent 15000 terrorists using ISI to indian kashmir and further provoked kashmiris..sounds like a fanatics…
Hmm the economic part did make alot of sense to me but with political one, i don’t agree at all.
I think it was India which started the very basis of India Pakistan conflict by illegally buying human beings, even that a very cheap rate. They never followed any UN referendum requests. That is the basis of all this India Pakistan problem. So i will not be wrong in saying that it was India which set the basis of the conflict, which now span 60 years.
Coming to the fact that India didn’t attack us ever, so i think its wrong and you yourself have said that India help liberate Bangladesh in your comment so we are also doing the same in Kashmir. We are helping them to get their liberation. We were also doing the same with Sikh’s. So please don’t tell me that India is not doing anything and yes one the Taliban issue, Pakistan created Taliban to secure its Western borders and we all know that they were very much secure till the War on Terror started. Even today, the Afghan Taliban are totally in favor of Pakistan and have openly disowned the Pakistani RAW funded Taliban. Plus India is not helping Afghan Taliban because they still at war with them but India do help disgruntled tribes and people inside Pakistan with cooperation from the Northern Alliance, which is historically close to India. You can check about that on any un biased website.
Moreover, we all Pashtuns, living in the border province, know it very well that the recent insurgency has Indian traits and that is why Indian detonators for IED’s were found with insurgents. Pakistan has provided numerous proof of these incidents to the Americans and Afghans.
Plus India is not attacking us for two reasons, because Pakistan is fighting US War on Terror and hence India can not attack Pakistan till the Big Daddy don’t permit it. Secondly, what India will do after attacking Pakistan? Capture it completely and then what you expect us to do? Won’t we use our atomic bombs as a last resort? I think India is still not in a position to afford a nuclear war so i think we should stop thinking about War anymore.
Do check what the numerous consulates of India are doing on our Western border and what the Indian commandos are doing inside Afghanistan except for training the insurgency in Pakistan?
By the way i forgot to tell you that the Cruise Missile Babur is still not available with China or North Korea so i hope now we will not infer that United States provided us with the Cruise Missile as well. Moreover, the UAV Uqaab is also not available with our allies but it is same as that of the one Israel provided to India and which was shot down few years back by Pakistani plane. The UAV was shot down with gun fire by the plane as we wanted to get hold of the technology of the UAV. Even at that time our government announced in public that the high tech UAV is a gift of India to Pakistan and we will soon come up with a far better UAV, after getting hold of the Israeli made UAV that we shot down when india sent us to spy on us.
And there is no harm in reverse engineering till the time it serves the purpose. We did get technology from other countries and that shortened the process of developing the missiles ourselves and saved us a lot of money.
The only thing that Pakistan need to focus on is its economy and once we stabilize it, no power can think of harming us ever.
I think it was India which started the very basis of India Pakistan conflict by illegally buying human beings, even that a very cheap rate. They never followed any UN referendum requests. That is the basis of all this India Pakistan problem. So i will not be wrong in saying that it was India which set the basis of the conflict, which now span 60 years.
pls……u forget ur mighty past…pakistan irregular army attacked kashmir..and rapes/kills/murders/destroy the roads/telecom of kashmir in 1947….and later king of kashmir signs treaty of accession….so it was india who attacked kashmir??UN referendum also tells that pakistan should leave POK ..and maintain a troop of 2000 at max…..and what is UN now??A bunch of fanatics powers enforcing their hegemony on weaker nations..now dont tell about hyderabad and others which were surrounded by india from all sides..kashmir was a complete buffer between india and pak…and dont tell that pakistan is a pak state made for muslims…India is secular state…even your asma jahangir was asked by india media that should we compare india with pakistan while dealing with its muslims (they meant)..she told that india shouldnt be compared to pak ..it should be compared with european country …..thats why imran khan,bhutto,nawaz sharif,even musharraf tells that india is an ideal state no matter we are very poor…
Coming to the fact that India didn’t attack us ever, so i think its wrong and you yourself have said that India help liberate Bangladesh in your comment so we are also doing the same in Kashmir. We are helping them to get their liberation. We were also doing the same with Sikh’s.
india helped bangladesh to liberate bcoz 10 millions had cme to india from bd…do u knw still there are 60 million bangladeshis staying illegally in india…if pak would haev continued to rape/kill/murder those bengalis we would have been home to70 milion illegal+150 million bangladeshis who r in bangladesh…
we were least bothered abt wht u do with dem?kill them or worship dem..but dey became tension for india..
sikhs case is not same …sikhs of india are better in condtion that hindus here…is it same with hindus of pak???sikhs have highets per capita income/?have u visited punjab???its better than ur entire pak??they r richy rich…just admit that pakistan has habit to intervene in prosper regions so that india remains unstable…i m stil nt justifying bangladesh even though u treated them 3rd class citizen there,suppressed their language/culture…
pak funded sikhs for jst disturbing india bcoz pak is al all india centric…
sikhs dont do cheap jobs..dey r nt below poverty line…their per capita income has always been 3 times hindus since last 60 years …pak is jst envy of india progress…
“”So please don’t tell me that India is not doing anything and yes one the Taliban issue, Pakistan created Taliban to secure its Western borders and we all know that they were very much secure till the War on Terror started. Even today, the Afghan Taliban are totally in favor of Pakistan and have openly disowned the Pakistani RAW funded Taliban. Plus India is not helping Afghan Taliban because they still at war with them but India do help disgruntled tribes and people inside Pakistan with cooperation from the Northern Alliance, which is historically close to India. You can check about that on any un biased website.
Moreover, we all Pashtuns, living in the border province, know it very well that the recent insurgency has Indian traits and that is why Indian detonators for IED’s were found with insurgents. Pakistan has provided numerous proof of these incidents to the Americans and Afghans.”"”"
ofcourse i know that pak created taliban and made afganistan its colony…dats why u were nevr democratic..even india liberated bangladesh..but it was nt our colony….grow up…dis mentallity kiled u .u used dem in kashmir…we killed 15000-20000 of them in last 20 years…now hardly 400 left in valley…ofcourse ,everyone knows pak is originator of world wide terror..india had been telling UN/USA but dey realized once they gt the right shot which dey deserved for ignoring us..i never knew that raw has a taliban :)..u r saying that pak is in cntrol of the evil taliban..it means that pak is nt serious in handling terrorism…u still have same old evil design…this is where ur ISI/generals compromised/sided with taliban even till 2006…BT usa is nt ur bed friend,.and pak has to suffer the backlash once usa attacks..it comes in the form of FBI/pak agency getting killed in a building that is dedicated for these terrorists investigation or other suicide attacks on ur army..
northern alliance are nt lke taliban..dey didnt destroy WTC tower..dey didnt enforce their medieval rule on innocents women and men..dey r secular..dey didnt send terrorist to blow in europe/usa/india….dey believe in democracy..and we support democracy..pls dont tell me that india is sending IED and others 2 pak…those bombs are with taliban since taliban got from erstwhile afganistan who had russian bombs…and russian bombs were supplied to india 2…pls go and see the weapons..dey will be rusted and pretty old..dont speculate …
did General musharraf/bhuttoo/sharif ever complain about india intervention???
“”"Plus India is not attacking us for two reasons, because Pakistan is fighting US War on Terror and hence India can not attack Pakistan till the Big Daddy don’t permit it. Secondly, what India will do after attacking Pakistan? Capture it completely and then what you expect us to do? Won’t we use our atomic bombs as a last resort? I think India is still not in a position to afford a nuclear war so i think we should stop thinking about War anymore.
Do check what the numerous consulates of India are doing on our Western border and what the Indian commandos are doing inside Afghanistan except for training the insurgency in Pakistan?”"”
India follows independent policy..we are supporting USA bcoz we need their investment,nuclear tech,clean tech and some other technology and we don’t like china….so anyone other than china can be our friend..(don’t worry we don’t treat Pak as potential competitor,as we know its just a separated part of India which will join us back soon)…and china cant help us bcoz they treat us as their competitor …….and we have more to gain from West than china..on the other side,we are maintaining a decent relationship with china …
dont worry india is nt going 2 attack pak..pak should better eliminate taliban and clean the world from evil…
why should indian consulate should tell innocents public that pak made u pony..dey ruled u indirectly by creating taliban…those taliban enforced sadist rules on public..promoted drugs cultivation in afgan…destroyed their culture…destroyed Buddhist great temples and statues…have shame while u defend taliban…Disinformation against wrong is justified…and pak lahore radio is still broadcasting rumors that india doesnt treat sikhs well even in 2008 …. i heard it many times…and we laugh together on pak stupidity….khalistan is past…
“”"Plus India is not attacking us for two reasons, because Pakistan is fighting US War on Terror and hence India can not attack Pakistan till the Big Daddy don’t permit it. Secondly, what India will do after attacking Pakistan? Capture it completely and then what you expect us to do? Won’t we use our atomic bombs as a last resort? I think India is still not in a position to afford a nuclear war so i think we should stop thinking about War anymore.
Do check what the numerous consulates of India are doing on our Western border and what the Indian commandos are doing inside Afghanistan except for training the insurgency in Pakistan?”"”
India follows independent policy..we are supporting USA bcoz we need their investment,nuclear tech,clean tech and some other technology and we don’t like china….so anyone other than china can be our friend..(don’t worry we don’t treat Pak as potential competitor,as we know its just a separated part of India which will join us back soon)…and china cant help us bcoz they treat us as their competitor …….and we have more to gain from West than china..on the other side,we are maintaining a decent relationship with china …
dont worry india is nt going 2 attack pak..pak should better eliminate taliban and clean the world from evil…
why shouldnt indian consulate sh tell innocents public of afgan that pak made u all pony..dey ruled u indirectly by creating taliban…those taliban enforced sadist rules on public..promoted drugs cultivation in afgan…destroyed their culture…destroyed Buddhist great temples and statues…have shame while u defend taliban…Disinformation against wrong is justified…and pak lahore radio is still broadcasting rumors that india doesnt treat sikhs well even in 2008 …. i heard it many times…and we laugh together on pak ..
stupidity….khalistan is past…
afganistan cant remain pak puppet..our commandos are there to save our men/engineers./doctors who work on development on afganistan..we are building chaahabr seaport and connecting iran to afgani and that wil help us import/export to central asia…
we dont have sick mentality..but telling truth is right…taliban and isi killed our engineers and how can they work on construction of roads and other things without protection…………
“”By the way i forgot to tell you that the Cruise Missile Babur is still not available with China or North Korea so i hope now we will not infer that United States provided us with the Cruise Missile as well. Moreover, the UAV Uqaab is also not available with our allies but it is same as that of the one Israel provided to India and which was shot down few years back by Pakistani plane. The UAV was shot down with gun fire by the plane as we wanted to get hold of the technology of the UAV. Even at that time our government announced in public that the high tech UAV is a gift of India to Pakistan and we will soon come up with a far better UAV, after getting hold of the Israeli made UAV that we shot down when india sent us to spy on us.”"”
babur cruise missile is on russian Kh55 technology..first of all its not hypersonic cruise ..and pak missile technology is all on papers.no1 have seen the range ..all pass through all the testing…100% tested and inducted in 1-2 trials…kh55were given to pre taliban afganistan and were also there with russians in afganistan..and pak might have acquired that in 1988 once russia left afgan…but i doubt pak can make something by reverse engineer..it might be a secret project with china,,,and china doesnt expose its weapons ..
is pak so good in reverse enginnering ???its all BS>..a shot down/burnt UAV is useless…u can maximum get hold of size/shape and some design but engine/avionics/hydraulics and computational power has to be built up……..
china after 30 +years of reverse engineer cant make a good 4 G fighter engine.their products still have 50% russian components..
if pak can reverse engineer a burnt down tom hawk or israeli uav..den why don u reverse engineer
a
1)a car :mix of audi+mercedes+toyota+ferrari..
even chinese cant do it……
2)a good bike with mix of honda+harley+bmw
3)a simple electronic product from nokia,samsung,sony,LG,Motorola.. and other television and home used electronics products……….
and if pak did make some babar or uav by reverse engineering..it would be of very low quality…
In india our armed forces doesnt belive in cheap products..once we got some akula with submarines from russia and it was not firing well..so we sent them back and told them that pls dont sell us junk…so u can understand indian standard…thats why our armed forces officers openly criticize arjun/LCA even they will be decent….
bcoz they want class 1 technology..
pak missiles/technology is nthing great..
Bhutoo visits n.korea and buys no-dong missiles in exchange of urenco tech from a q khan gang…NO-dong and shaheen is 95% same…
Defence pesonals/scientists dont get paid…and private sector of any country hires the best guys…so i really cant have faith in pak,public sector scientists….
with 50 PHD ,pakistan is declaring tech which are not of its caliber.. it proves they are not..
it would be better for pak if you all work to develop indigenous industry with the help of those scientist who could reverse engineer those indian UAV /TOm hawk missiles….
or atleast put in some effort in space technology…..if u declare that NO dong or shaheen is a indigenous missile of pak..den why dont u send a small rocket into space….that could be helpful in sending slv..or atleast develop a good satellite via any means (reverse engineer bhi chalega)
Patience Dhiraj because at the end of the day all you said is just what you believe and what you believe is what you heard and what you were made to heard by your media. I appreciate your patriotism but i think it should make you blind to the facts. Following are short replies to your comments
1) Pakistan will get back to India but it will be like the same old era when we ruled the whole sub continent. Remember, Muslims ruled the whole place and not you.
2) Do search google for competative advantage theory and you will realize that a nation does not need to make everything.
3) 100% Success rate of our missiles also show our supremacy in this area so it is like half glass full or half glass empty thing and of course for you it shows we got ready made missiles but for me it’s our success in this area.
4) Babur Cruise missile is not going to be declassified for your information and hence don’t jump to the conclusion unless you are very sure of it. I hope you were not one of the engineers who designed it because otherwise no one knows anything more about our missile program except for the pictures and i am amazed that you can guess from the picture, the type of engine used in the missile. You must be brilliant and i think you are a great asset to the world.
5) You are not even secular and that is clearly evident from what your extremists did to Babri Mosque so before blaming Taliban for the destroying Buddha Statues, do ask BJP, what they did to the Babri Mosque. Also the way Christian Churches are burnt every year is a how you rule with your secularism and the way Muslims were slaughtered in Gujrat is how you pronounce your secularism. Indeed your country is confuse in finding its true ideology. The very election of BJP party shows the extremist mentality of ordinary Indians.
6) Musharraf, Bhutto and Sharifs don’t wash their clothes in the public and hence never indulged themselves in blame game while we all know how Indian Ministers blame Pakistan for everything. I won’t be surprised that if Vajpayee blame Pakistan for his wife rude attitude or Lal Krishna Advani blame Pakistan for Gujrat Massacre.
7) I think closing the eyes to the facts will not affect the reality and hence you don’t have to believe in the Indian interference in Pakistan from our Western borders. Remember one thing, the moment America is gone from Afghanistan, the whole Taliban and other Jihadists will come back to Kashmir and this time they will make sure to slaughter your 7 lakh plus army residing there. Be thankful to Pakistan for becoming buffer and be thankful to Musharraf for sealing the border to Kashmir, else your Delhi will wake up every morning with few bomb blasts. It is the brave Army of Pakistan who can fight them and Indian army is no match for these Talibans or Al Qaeda. We all know how your 7 lakh plus army failed in the past 18 years to quell the insurgency in Kashmir and we all know how they killed 60,000 people but still failed in achieving any results. So it is a moment of time when things will change back and yes i will be waiting for it because then as you rightly said, Indian will get back its lesson.
The Coward Northern Alliance stand no chance and the moment the Americans are gone, they will be crushed again as they were previously crushed.
I am sure time will come when we will get back on the economic front. That is the place where Pakistan lags behind and sooner or later we will cover that gap.
1) Pakistan will get back to India but it will be like the same old era when we ruled the whole sub continent. Remember, Muslims ruled the whole place and not you.
:)…first u should win over your puppet taliban regime who have turned hawkish now..
muslims did rule coz they learnt how to behave and deal with majority hindus…although they did destory few laks of temples.and r u living in medieval period?india was not united that time.muslims even are presients,DRDO deputy director,vice president and a vice chief ….but they are indians first ..sure come and join us ,,, i have no problem whoever is PM or president as long as he is a true indian…
2) Do search google for competative advantage theory and you will realize that a nation does not need to make everything.
only practical for china or very smaller country like singapore or hongkong ..bcoz they were near to china…but china learnt a lot of technology from western companies…and it has some of electronics and manifacturing brands….i dont want to put india into it,coz india even being 1billion pop and having second biggest market still doesnt possess a comparable manifacturing..never believe that any country in next 20 years will gain as high as china in manifacturing..its only possible if u start buying companies ..this is what is tata is doing ….if u cant build it,,,buy it……….don tell me that software companies will come to pak ??
it came to india bcoz india had few software giants.now it has 5-6 companies who earn revenue above 1 bilion$ and 40 between 100-1000 million$….its economics….for local production,pak has nt been able to get nokia inspite of buying billion $ of mobiles…is it possible for big shots to come who will hardly sell few milions dollars…and china is 1.2 billion in pop..dey have many poor still ready to work…
if companies will go then they will go 2 africa …bcoz they are 2 poor but little unstable…so is pak…wages in pak is higher than india/china…
3)100% Success rate of our missiles also show our supremacy in this area so it is like half glass full or half glass empty thing and of course for you it shows we got ready made missiles but for me it’s our success in this area.
it proves that Pak is ahead of USA/RUSSIA/israel in all modern cutting edge technology,with 0% failures in all missiles test..this notion is common among all pakistani….
4)Babur Cruise missile is not going to be declassified for your information and hence don’t jump to the conclusion unless you are very sure of it. I hope you were not one of the engineers who designed it because otherwise no one knows anything more about our missile program except for the pictures and i am amazed that you can guess from the picture, the type of engine used in the missile. You must be brilliant and i think you are a great asset to the world.
Nothing is classified in pakistan…its all hidden..what is it?who gave it?frm where it came??
i was saying that how can pakistan make a cruise missile if u r saying china doesnt have???
4)You are not even secular and that is clearly evident from what your extremists did to Babri Mosque so before blaming Taliban for the destroying Buddha Statues, do ask BJP, what they did to the Babri Mosque. Also the way Christian Churches are burnt every year is a how you rule with your secularism and the way Muslims were slaughtered in Gujrat is how you pronounce your secularism. Indeed your country is confuse in finding its true ideology. The very election of BJP party shows the extremist mentality of ordinary Indians.
did i justify babri …it was done by some fanatics…but what about laks of temples destroyed in old india and synagogue/temples demolished in pakistan….we are tolerant…but 99% people from pak are born with black hindu kafirs rats mentality.and 1 pak=10 hindustani :)..some more ,hindus worship some shit idols,they worship in dark place..women are burnt (250 years old story)…hindus are evils…and infidels…
gurjat riots were aftermath of 100 rss hindu members killed by ISI…if 100 muslims in pak are burnt alive by hindu,next day we will hear ,hindu pop reduces to 0% in pak.thats why people protest over a cartooon and riots/kills ur own brothers..
5)Musharraf, Bhutto and Sharifs don’t wash their clothes in the public and hence never indulged themselves in blame game while we all know how Indian Ministers blame Pakistan for everything. I won’t be surprised that if Vajpayee blame Pakistan for his wife rude attitude or Lal Krishna Advani blame Pakistan for Gujrat Massacre.
they dont speak bcoz they know that enemy of pakistan is fundamentalism in ur society…
love affair between taliban and pak is over….if zardari makes any peace with dem…dont expect usa to leave them regroup and attack afgan…USA will go after pak so badly …after all they are the bigger aid donor…can pak survive without them??
vajpayee is unmarried…and godhra hindu killing was done by ISI..but some hindu fanatics were idiots who rioted..at least we indians dont support their shit…u r still justifying taliban …
6)I think closing the eyes to the facts will not affect the reality and hence you don’t have to believe in the Indian interference in Pakistan from our Western borders. Remember one thing, the moment America is gone from Afghanistan, the whole Taliban and other Jihadists will come back to Kashmir and this time they will make sure to slaughter your 7 lakh plus army residing there. Be thankful to Pakistan for becoming buffer and be thankful to Musharraf for sealing the border to Kashmir, else your Delhi will wake up every morning with few bomb blasts. It is the brave Army of Pakistan who can fight them and Indian army is no match for these Talibans or Al Qaeda. We all know how your 7 lakh plus army failed in the past 18 years to quell the insurgency in Kashmir and we all know how they killed 60,000 people but still failed in achieving any results. So it is a moment of time when things will change back and yes i will be waiting for it because then as you rightly said, Indian will get back its lesson.
The Coward Northern Alliance stand no chance and the moment the Americans are gone, they will be crushed again as they were previously crushed.
I am sure time will come when we will get back on the economic front. That is the place where Pakistan lags behind and sooner or later we will cover that gap.
we have learnt to deal with terrorists …isnt ISI operating in india..now india internal agency is co-operaing (they are 3rd best)..dey r intercepting all calls…dey trace everyone phones…
i m seeing how brave pak army is ??thats why they surrendered 100 times in FATA/NWFP…while indian army fought against 20000 terrorists who all of a sudden intruded via porous border…we have sealed …and keep in mind that may be 90% of indians think pakistan is just like us ..but some people know pakistan evil design ..as long s we remain watch full ,u send your full army we will fight them…indian army is switching over to advanced counter attack warfare using 10 cm to 1meter spy satellites who can give Realtime movement of persons….its not 1990,,,india is a big dady in world.
if pak continues to have evil will against india,and once usa leaves u…u wll be without no aid…we will see how long u can survive with india in any arms race…with in 5 years pak will get bankrupt if usa/west stops aiding pak……..
.but we have enough consulates in afgan for ,if pak ever decides to sponsor terror in kashmir..forget delhi..if we have bomb blasts in delhi,and if pak hand is behind that…pak will go to stone age..we will see your power of nukes and we will see our ABM capability..if you are lucky to hit indian cities……then pak will not exist…it would be not on map……this is most uncommon …
To be practical,even USA leaves pak,no country will have guts to come into afgan and destroy the democratic regime and replace with taliban..bcz next time usa wont think left and right…they will
1)declare pak a rogue state
2)put 10000 sanctions on pak
3)pak will be no good as myanmar or north korea
and if someone like bush is in power,,dey might nuke full pak declaring a country with evil nature supporting world wide terrorism and threat to world….10000 nukes will melt full pakistan..
i hopr all this doesnt happen…
so talk sense…..pak can never have same control like u had before …and remember world is watching ,,,,u can still help taliban and later starve to death……
Resilience of economy is possible if pakistan behaves like a responsible nation………..i dont bother what pak does with its economy or war against terror,as long as pak remains away from terrorism in india..BUt india hs no faith in pak regime..as army and public is grown up anti india notion and lot of harping abt kashmir.
pakistan cant prosper by indulging in arms race with india
pakistan cant prosper by supporting open terror in india
pakistan cant prosper by teaching pakistani that india is all what i wrote(kafur/black…………)
pakistan cant prosper by spreading intolerance in minds of public,by spreading fake propaganda that india attacked and all ,which is 100% lie..
pakistan cant prosper without being part of indian subcontinent
pakistan cant prosper by using fundamentalist …if zardari becomes lenient,,, i m sorry to say , future of pak will become worse…even china doesn like islamic terrorists who creates prob in xiaxing province..same for chechanya..
pak cant prosper by harping on kashmir…
some of things i have noticed among educated people from pak
1)they think that someone will come ,invest money,set up industry and all of sudden pak will become jannat…….come on,without working hard ,its difficult to even beg in international market…
2)man power is not the only concern…and pak doesnt have 2 many skilled persons..foreign companies are taking out more than they give you.jst coz of USA and west aid/debt bailing off ,pak is able to spurt its consumer spending..
3)people are highly pessimistic and suddenly become highly optimistic…..it took Tata 150 years to reach here…and they are not even on top …
4)without brand development in your local industry,your country cant develop……..
It seems arguing with you is useless as you are least practical. Pakistan will be bombed by India to stone age or for that matter by USA? Where you learned this? Bed time story shared by Vajpayee or by Bush?
Because if that was possible, they would have done it long ago. Israel wanted to destroy our nuclear installations using Indian airports but they couldn’t get a right time or a right chance and India knew too well the type of response it will get.
Moreover, go and read about ABM and yes do read about MWDS of Pakistan against whom no ABM works. Plus reading few articles on the internet don’t give you the knowledge to understand things to the level you claim. Even you can’t build a single aircraft by your own and needs Russia to make it for you. At least we are making few of our own aircrafts.
And you didn’t answer from where you got your information about Babur engine and other details so first answer that question.
And yea i am looking to hear from you as to when and where Hindus or Christians temples were destroyed in Pakistan? I gave you one example of Babri Mosque whose destruction is comparable to the destruction of Buddha Status by Taliban so in that matter Indians are no much different then Talibans. What you doing in Kashmir is no different then what Israel is doing in Palestine and that is why you need them to teach you technology.
israel was going to bomb kahuta..and so was india …we would have avoided a failed nuclear state in 2008,which bought tech from china,Korea illegally and sold across world to earn $..
but it was USA agency CIA who came to know about it..and USA was your…
just keep in mind that:”creation of pak was the biggest mistake”
“pak ideology hs failed”
“pak is no lesss than a failed state running on aid(USA/west)”
it would be better for all of you if you dump zardari/musharraf or any politicians bcoz all cant help pak survive ..The only way pak can survive is to
1)
a)Break into smaller territory:
punjab should merge into india punjab(INdia)
b)balochistan and NWFP/FATA will go to afganistan
c)SIndh will be the left over pak ,with a significant muhajir ,who will have no prob living with indians
d)POK will become american base against china…
2)Better would be to just direct merge into india and become indian citizens…(The only mistake india did was to leave 10000 sq km meter which we occupied from pak in only 13 days war in western pak (that time).,.india should have conquered full west pakistan.and made it part of india..after all we have soviet union..and USA couldnt have had so many balls….If pak would have nt been now,NO taliban,NO break up of soveit,No american supremacy,
3)i or any indians had no prob with pak if you stay under india tag….
a)elect your members from Provinces of pak,run your state govt but report to delhi central govt..or may be ,we can be little more lenient and make your islamabad or any other cold city of pak as summer capital..
b)pay the tax and get the share of tax for development from central got..
c)indian army +your pak army will be merged,but name will be india …
d)Give up pak name…its no more pure…
e)all borders to be opened and free movement of people across borders.same goes for kashmir…but no taliban should come in…
f)i heard bollywood is 2 famous in pak..so they are promoting indian culture and peace…so its good that new generation is pro india species ,who will like to merge with india(not like you people,who read the crap text books)..Now india doesnt need to fight with pakistan to win pakistan…with out spending a single fire,pak will surely become part of india on or before 2015…
A stupid Indian who lost his temper so quickly. Look at your first mail and then your last mail. In just few mails you showed your true face so do compare your first mail with your last mail.
And do live in your wishful thoughts and pray for America that they stay in Afghanistan as long as possible other wise your India is at stake. It will just require few days for the mujahideen to turn their attention to Kashmir again once they are free from Afghanistan.
Even today your Indian government has asked the world to save it from the mujahideen because your army can’t fight them and you need the help of the world to get them away from you.
What a shame on a country with such a big army and boasting so much about its economy. This is the difference between you and us. Our army never came out in public to ask US to help us though they are ready to offer us aid to save them from the mujahideens.
America is giving us aid to keep their army safe in Afghanistan as they are well aware that without Pakistan cooperation, they cant survive in Afghanistan for a single day. Same goes for your consulates. Remember how india was begging the UN when its airplane was hijacked into Afghanistan. Even they asked us to help them. I feel pity for you people. Sooner or later India will break up into different smaller states when the Mujahideen again start coming.
Start counting…
count down starts now:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8..\…………………………….to infinity…………..
keep counting.send all your muhajideens,we will slaughter them all ..
it proves that india is a democratic responsible state..and it doesnt believe in controlling rogue elements..your army is so great…thats why they surrender most of the times…its always better to use diplomacy before force.so we do it…….and pak army always believe in spreading terror world wise…
“”A stupid Indian who lost his temper so quickly. Look at your first mail and then your last mail. In just few mails you showed your true face so do compare your first mail with your last mail”"
i praised u for da article bcoz u did a good work.but now issues have changed ..you are justifying creation of taliban and u also justify use of taliban is such civilized world.This shows that an educated pakistani is more stupid than an illiterate india .
“”And do live in your wishful thoughts and pray for America that they stay in Afghanistan as long as possible other wise your India is at stake. It will just require few days for the mujahideen to turn their attention to Kashmir again once they are free from Afghanistan.”"
hahahaha………muhajeedin wont be able to cross the borders..as i have explained u how india wil use its advanced spy satellites to monitor movement..but the day USA leaves ,pakistan will become talibanistan..do u think after killing them for last 3-4 years,they will again become your bed friend??
“Even today your Indian government has asked the world to save it from the mujahideen because your army can’t fight them and you need the help of the world to get them away from you.”
we dont say that…we talk about a state sponsored cross border terrorism.did you go and kill 20000 terrorists??
“”What a shame on a country with such a big army and boasting so much about its economy. This is the difference between you and us. Our army never came out in public to ask US to help us though they are ready to offer us aid to save them from the mujahideens.”
yeah there is lot of difference in ideology of india and pak..we dont follow pak talibani/jihadi
interests…why there are no bomb blasts in pak for last 15 days???coz your govt is on peace with taliban..this is the difference between 2 country,we dont attack a dead man….but pak is all anti india since birth..
your army is not needed …The day usa feels frustrated ,they will land their own troops and no dick and harry will say a word 2 them
“”America is giving us aid to keep their army safe in Afghanistan as they are well aware that without Pakistan cooperation, they cant survive in Afghanistan for a single day. Same goes for your consulates. Remember how india was begging the UN when its airplane was hijacked into Afghanistan. Even they asked us to help them. I feel pity for you people. Sooner or later India will break up into different smaller states”"
americ is not giving aid,they are giving u alms…and there is no option for pak..thats why mussy was crying since day1,,saying if we dont support USA,we will be bombed back to stone age…india was begging bcoz we dont harbor terrorists,so we follow legal channels..we asked pak to help,but that is a formal1.u should have told clearly that pak is openly helping terrorists to hijack…and how much u helped is well known 2us…
a)azhar masood i(head of jaise mohammad)n pak
2)dawood ibrahim in pak(karanchi)
3)tiger memon
4)khalistani groups since 80’s
pak only work is to harbor indian insurgents and terrorists/taliban ……This is the only identity of pakistan……
Huh! I will just point out the double statements you make in your comments. First you says you have high tech satellites through which you can see an ant on inside her home and hence you border is perfectly sealed and on the other hand you say, “Pakistan is sending mujahideen and helping them in cross border terrorism”. First figure out what you really think your satellites are capable of and then make you statements accordingly. Similarly you say that your Sikhs are the world richest people and then you yourself say that Pakistan bribed them. I don’t understand how can the world richest people take bribe from someone to do such things?
I think you should first think before writing. Then you yourself say that India has Hindu bigots and extremists etc and then you say Indian society is perfect and they use legal channel? Which is evident from the way they followed UN resolutions on Kashmir and the way they are sponsoring Dalai Lama. Again double standards.
And you slaughtered 20,000 mujahideen and don’t forget to check the statistics available mostly through media reports about the death of Indian soldiers that died in the last 19 years in Kashmir. They are even greater then 20,000. I excluded the amount of Indians that have lost your mind as they have short temper like you who are intolerant.
Plus stop using bed fellow word and grow up! There are other ways to say the same thing.
“”Huh! I will just point out the double statements you make in your comments. First you says you have high tech satellites through which you can see an ant on inside her home and hence you border is perfectly sealed and on the other hand you say, “Pakistan is sending mujahideen and helping them in cross border terrorism”. First figure out what you really think your satellites are capable of and then make you statements accordingly.”"
high tech satellites were not there in 1980’s,90’s .we built them in last few years.and real time video monitoring is 2 difficult if some crazy people(from across the border)whose only aim is to some how intrude ,irrespective of they die or live.pakistan still send muhajideen,but they get noticed and encountered.
“”Similarly you say that your Sikhs are the world richest people and then you yourself say that Pakistan bribed them. I don’t understand how can the world richest people take bribe from someone to do such things?”"
sikhs are the richest community in india,it doesnt mean that there are no criminals among them.some % of people in any community can resort to terrorism.but my point is that,sikhs who spread terror in india are from pak,canada .Indian sikhs wil never do such heinous acts.
“”I think you should first think before writing. Then you yourself say that India has Hindu bigots and extremists etc and then you say Indian society is perfect and they use legal channel? Which is evident from the way they followed UN resolutions on Kashmir and the way they are sponsoring Dalai Lama. Again double standards.”"
thats the difference between me and you.u will praise fundamentalist on basis of your religion.but i think from my country point of view.Any one who violates indian constitution ,kills any innocent persons is a criminal.if its done on basis of religion,they are fanatics…in india people don’t support such actions,but in pak people celebrated on 9/11.This is the difference.Dalai lama is in exile in india for last 50 years.India accepts tibet is part of china.dont jst read the chinese propaganda.they have destroyed the ethnicity of tibet.They sent 5 million hans to tibet and destroying tibetan culture.india still follows artcile 370.No indian is allowed to buy land in kashmir.UN resolutions is made by bigots.so why should india follow it?we only follow our constitution…
“”And you slaughtered 20,000 mujahideen and don’t forget to check the statistics available mostly through media reports about the death of Indian soldiers that died in the last 19 years in Kashmir. They are even greater then 20,000. I excluded the amount of Indians that have lost your mind as they have short temper like you who are intolerant.
Plus stop using bed fellow word and grow up! There are other ways to say the same thing.”"
your mujahideen are terrorists …They were from tajikistan/uzbekistan/afganistan/chechanya but trained by ISI madarssa &brainwashed in training camps.we have all right to kill them…we dont mind losing 1000 soldiers…but these terrorists killed more civilians that you can imagine…first all of a sudden 20000 hindus and forced 20 laks to move out from kashmir…and then they even didnt spare original kashmir siya islam,kiled siya muslims…..
Indian’s are tolerant but to be tolerant with a Pakistani who openly supports religious extremism will be a blunder..
M Junaid Khan……
i think no1 is visiting this forum now…coming back to article
do u stay in pak?
u mentioned ,u work in telecom!
Jaguar still has no show room in India…but i guess pak has one..1% of pakistani spend a lot of money and live like king,while indians are yet to possess a big heart to spend money on such products…
with so much import tax,i doubt tata will be able to sell more than few 100’s in india..
To me it looks like a ok deal…They should absorb the technology and shift its operation to india..but they will continue to buy engine from ford for next 5 years and thats going to hit me…and the labor cost in uk is too high..and UK doesn’t even have good qty of engineers.
TAta should use JLR manpower to build their own indigenous designs and roll out a good tata car as soon as possible…These same qty of jags/land rovers can be built in india at 1/5 th cost..
how do u think ,tata will manage this sinking ship…?
1. stop talking about cars. pakistan cannot even make a decent motorbike. lets learn that first before talking about cars. STOP. if somebody is gonna tell me ‘we made sitaras and alifs’ -just stop it! They r both like a toilet bowl on wheels.
2. china? hey do some reading up and see that all the help china has rendered to us is primarily for their strategic gains, rather than ours. the gave us the a-bomb + several weapon technology to create a strong country that is anti-india and indebt to china. so incase few years down the road, if there is a 2nd sino-indian war, we will be obliged to help china even if situations at that time dont permit us. although some of you may think its a good idea to join forces later with china to attack india, it isnt. The smartest thing to do is to stay away from any conflict if it doesnt involve you. Especially involving 3 nuclear states (2 of which are advanced), India will never allow themselves to lose. The worst case scenario outcome: MAD (mutual assured destruction). All three countries (Pak, India and China) will be ashes. And amongst the 3 which is easiest to be reduced to ashes? Pakistan (smallest).
Think. In 1971 war china never helped us despite our desperate call and encouragement from US (then ally, anti india) to China to offer help. Why? They wanted to watch their backs which were threatened by the USSR, who were steadfast in supporting India.
Next: kargil 1999. Again despite early chinese encouragement (allegedly said in 1 of Musharraf’s book), when the war officially broke out and India moved several of their mighty destroyers and frigates to launch a blockade against Karachi port, we frantically asked for chinese help. They never lifted a finger. Why? they were scared that the world will isolate them which would collpase their (then) fragile growing economy. Further, they didnt want to be dragged into the conflict, incase it turns sour and some of their cities get bombed. After vajpayee gave a speech warning any country who backs pakistani army in any way as directly involved in the conflict and would face indian military measures, china shut their mouths. not that they r scared. they r just smart. because they know drawing themselves into a war with india is not gonna bring them any gain. they weren’t willing to defend pakistani territory at their loss. Simple.
But we r not in that situation. if china goes to war (ok forget india, with anybody), and they face any shortfalls, we r obliged to fill in the gaps.
Now US is no better. They just used us to counter indo-ussr threat in the region. they bred all those manace terrorists, of whom our stupid ISI continued to nuture. once ussr fell, they left pakistan, and all the mess they made is now showing. in 08′ we’ve suffered more casualities from bomb attacks than afghanistan (according to a news report i saw some days back).
instead of depending too much on china and us, lets just be self reliable, so we can make our own decisions when curcial periods arise.
Oh i forgot, talking about gwadar, it is just for china’s sole economic and strategic (string of pearls) purposes. Pakistan’s gain is secondary.
China? or US? ally? Think again.
shaheen is 95% nodong. balance 5% is the china-made paint covering it. thats all. if pakistan is so good @ making ballistic missile they will already have a sat launch vehicle. musharraf said pak will launch its 1st sat in 2005. nothing done. haven’t even made satellite, what more SLV. suparco = sitting duck.
imran ali …your comments were very unbiased…..
1)China will openly support pakistan,but its only aim has been to keep india involved with pakistan
2)china supplies weapons/missiles to india which could be used as india
3)But most of pakistanis are ignorant about india-pak war.They all think that India attacked them ….But reality is opposite.Since 1947,in all three wars ,pak army/intruders of army always carried out the first offensive attacks
4)Regarding manufacturing capability of pakistan: Zunaid was talking about economics and other principals involved in setting up manufacturing units.. i agree to his logic to some extent
5)shaheen although is not Pakistani made,but they could have bought the complete TOT from korea.
Making a slv is not easy.Brazil has failed 10-12 tests of SLV in last years.Iran’s slv was actually a missile which was just sent up.Slv needs to have more functionalities than normal IRBM/ICBM..
SUPARCO doesnt have the funding and capability to make SLV.and for them priority is to make missiles.While in india,DRDO is totally separate from ISRO.ISRO is for only civilian space use.
Being a student of International Relations, i think you will come across the very first line which says “In international arena, there is no true friends or enemies, every thing is based on interest”
So if you expect China to help you without expecting anything in return, its your fault and for that matter with any other country. At the end of the day, you should compel them to help you because of your strategic importance.
In Kargil, i still don’t agree with the government stance of backing out as i think they should have continued it for few more days and negotiated on a much stronger terms. The Indians inflicted maximum casualties on our returning forces. And blocking Karachi is theoretically possible but not practically. Lastly, since Pakistan can easily use Bandar Abbass port of Iran to get its supplies so blocking that route will not choke Pakistan.
Dhoot confident of Motorola handset unit takeover
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Dhoot_confident_of_Motorola_handset_unit_takeover/articleshow/2929042.cms
5 Apr, 2008, 2121 hrs IST, AGENCIES
NEW DELHI: Indian electronics major Videocon Group\’s chief Venugopal N. Dhoot has expressed confidence about acquiring Motorola Inc.\’s handset business.
\”I have thrown my hat in the ring. And they will say it is a good hat as it is an Indian hat,\” Dhoot said in his usual euphemism on the sidelines of a conference here Saturday. He refused to divulge any financial details.
\”We have sent our expression of interest to Motorola. In US, it takes about a year for all the necessary regulatory approvals to take place,\” Dhoot said adding that the firm has appointed UBS as the investment banker.
Earlier this week, the Mumbai-based appliances and electronics giant announced plans to acquire Motorola\’s loss-making unit.
\”It may be a very serious business for us because we have got mobile phone licences for 22 circles in India. Apart from that, we have our own retail network with about 1,000 shops where we sell mobile phones,\” Dhoot said Monday adding that Videocon was well positioned for a bid, which could be financed from internal accruals and debt.
Motorola, world\’s third-largest producer of mobile phones, last week said it would split its loss-making subsidiary into a separate firm with its own listing on the stock market.
The Schaumburg, Illinois-based company has, however, not made any comments so far.
In 2005, Videocon acquired the picture-tube business of France\’s Thomson for $291 million. It had also made an unsuccessful bid for South Korean Daewoo Electronics in 2006.
India is the world\’s fastest growing market for wireless subscribers, adding more than eight million users a month. With some 251 million wireless users it is expected to surpass US as the world\’s second-biggest market, led by China.
ya zunaid ,u r right!!china knew since day 1 that “India is the only its potential competitor in asia”.so it has been using Pakistan against India!!
1)Pakistan was always used by china since day1,in return they threw some technology to use it against India!
2)Pakistan always want to discuss Kashmir issue,but it gifted a part of Kashmir to china!is that not part of discussion?
3)China has sold old missiles(M9/M11),then some atomic reactor design and to some extent cruise missile tech
4)but don’t expect china to give U SLV or some space technology as space tech is a cash cow
5)China in return forces Pak to sign FTA and they gain more from you than the cheap weapons or few 500+million $ in aid you return
6)China can never help Pak in any war against india
7)China is pretty afraid of india joining with USA in an alliance!!but India is a responsible country unlike pakistan,so we have maintained steady relation!And there is a china party in india (CPI:chinese party of india)for which chinese interest are more important than india.so china is lucky to be gaining more than losing with india
8)But in new election things will change once BJP (NDA)alliance comes into power.They are not anti chinese as Vajpayee was the first PM to visit china after 20 years!!but indian stand will be more strong and we will be behaving more like an independent nation(coz CPI wont be in coalition)
9)pakistan didnt have any other option but to beg clinton !!Army was 2 afraid to fight a full war against india!!NUclear bombs is just a BS Issue !!we all know its a last option and no sensible army wants to screw itself for such stupid reasons!!and world recognized india stand on kashmir…..since then kashmir is a cross border terrorism!!
10)And India did know about kargil,but we wanted to extract most of benefits !!
a)Full india became united
b)indians didnt know more about pak as we never had any anti-pak or kashmir harping syllabus in our books!!but with this we all came to know about most of pakistan policy against india….
c)since kargil ,many of indians just know that pakistan=terrorism sponsor!!
d)Indian army despite losing 450 warriors destroyed 1 full infantry division of pakistan consisting of 2000+people!
e)NRI indians sent us the money!!
f)Nationalism was at its peak!
g)we always used to criticize everything we got!!but that attitude shed off!!
h)we were thankful to western country for putting sanction (since nuclear test)…we became self sufficient to some extent!atleast indian private companies are next only to USA!!
I)India is the country involved in maximum Merger and acquisition in 2007 (except USA)
Junaid,what do u think about videocon acquiring Motorola!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
will Pakistan be ready to buy a Motorola mobile made in India!!i guess videocon has a manufacturing capacity in middle east,china!!
and Motorola has a big manufacturing capacity in china!!
Its coz of ***** like you that the india-pak problems start. Yes you people, both stipid beings of the sub-continent. you guys dont have anything to do but with each others country bashing. You 2 cant even talk properly on the net, wonder what you would have done if you were polititions. Started a war between the 2 countries, and then 1000’s of innocent pakistanis and indian would have died. I know that the only reason that india and pakistan were created was coz of 4 **** who wanted all the power for themselves, and crated a deeper rift between the people(something that was later very successfully used by both the countries in Panjab during the terrorist times. the 4 ***** were gandhi,nehru, jinnah(who wanted to have the most power and then created the countries for their own good,and by using innocent people of an undivided land, and that ***** gandhi was heir secret weapon), and the 4th being the britishers(they know to be the most powerful, they need to make sure nobody rises more then them, and if india and pakistan keep fighting for all times, they will never rise). And you 2 lost nothing. Just the innocent poeple of punjab,who lived on the both sides of the border had to lose. The home, family, loved ones, alll vanished for ever when they had to leave their homes for the other country, and not even a single one wanted to do it), all coz to poeple like you two.And hights of making a mess of a small no-good chat. Try meeting poeple of either country and you will never see any difference between him and yourself.
i’m indian and even i can see it. it is this hatred that brings us apart. if we forget the past, we would all be friends i bet u, but NO. u idiots bring up things that happened half a century ago. wow!